Discussion William Minvera is an organization

I guess brainwashed was the wrong word choice. I guess what I meant to say is depending on the hardships he is forced to live through his will/spirit could be broken leading to a change in mindset. Like even though his friends got out and are now back to save him he feels like it's no use the demons are too powerful we cannot win? I don't see this from Norman's character but it's quite possible seeing as how Isabella and Krone went through similar things?

I like your way of going about it as well. Like he is the inside man so why escape and mess that all up. He is gaining their trust and using that to gain more knowledge they can use against the demons later? The only issue I have is do you really think the people who are part of this resistance and infiltrated the facility can easily recruit given the circumstances? What situation is going to allow Norman to tell someone who has been part of this system for who know how long what he knows? And what is going to make the Scientist guy comfortable enough with Norman to spill the beans on W.M.?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 12, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 12, 2017 ---

You have to remember that Krone grew up here. Now she knows they have 5 kids working together to escape. She knows the life that is waiting for them. She knows that alone she couldn't accomplish shit but together they may be able to do something. They also have a resolve that Krone didn't and know about the Demons well before Krone did as well. Krone was given a decisions live or die with out much time to choose. These kids know where they are headed and with the time they have they have chosen to live.

I will agree she knows the pen is of some use, but again I highly doubt she was able to get it to work knowing they need the books act as the key to unlocking the pen. She saw the B 06-32 but as we know that only denotes the location of the farm. Also if she doesn't know that B 06-32 is a coordinate then it what good does having that information do her? This is why I feel it would have been useless for her to pass the pen to the Demons because she has no understanding of what it is so it wont help her save her skin.

 

Isabella and Krone went in with a totally different mindest though.
Isabella thought it was impossible to escape and Krone probably didn't even know what was going on until it was too late.

Norman has this ray of hope at least, he'll change but I think he'll never completely abandon hope.

True.
Who knows if they'll ever talk about this, but there's a chance that it will happen.
Maybe he talks to Norman and just asks him if he liked the childrens stories of William Minerva and then he waits for his response.
I think Norman can assume that the Demons do not know about Minerva being a rebel (if he is). Otherwise there would be no books of him inside the orphanage.
Though maybe the books got in through other means... who knows...

Another thing though, is Norman in trouble now?
The Grandma and Isabella should know of Norman's connection with the children who escaped.

 

Yes Isabella and Krone had a very different mindset but we also don't know just how fucked the world actually is. So for them it was really easy to break them it wont go that way with Norman even if they do find a way to break him imo. Well this was more just my ramblings that something I think or want to happen. If it was Ray instead of Norman than maybe but I don't see it going that way. He will get some information that they can use to their advantage I am sure. He was ready to die and this new lease on life should jump start that drive to survive once again?

This is why I like talking to people, when my creative juices aren't working I can count on others to jump start them. I really like the idea of brining it up causally in conversation about something they would have seen in their plant. Regardless of how the books got their being the key to unlocking the pen anyone of Williams subordinate should have first hand knowledge of those books.
IDK if Norman is in trouble now? I would assume not because hell they need at least one positive and having at least one of the high scorers has to be better than nothing? Grandma and Isabella seem like they have their own thing going on. Not sure that ratting out Norman as a co-conspirator helps them in any way?

 

Yes, I think if it was Ray he would probably lose hope at some point.
Ray doesn't seem like the hopeful and positive guy to me while Norman is the exact opposite.

Okay so let me explain what I mean by trouble, there are 2 things to consider:

1) The obvious one, his connection to the kids and him possibly helping with this escape or having knowledge of where they might be going
2) They were raising these children for a specific event. An event where some important Demon will come to eat them.
The children are gone now but they still need food for this Demon "King". So is having another scientist more important than satisfying the Demon "King"? Would he take no for an answer?
What kind of relation do they have with him? Is he maybe the next step of their evolution?

Like Mindless Demons, Dog Demons, Humanoid Demons and then this Demon?

 

Well I always thought that Emma, Ray and the others would reunite with Norman once they meet with Minerva, initially anyway but now it's different. About Norman being an inside man in the facility, wouldn't he be found out easily though? (if we assume he's working in the facility with the scientists and the Demons) He doesn't have the tracker yes but still, they should be able to find him out.

We all know of the blackmailing trope being used many times in many series to paint a character in a bad light for a while until they reveal it was all an act and that they were blackmailed so I don't really think we'll go down this route with Norman being blackmailed to be "evil" in order to save Emma and Co (though it could be dealt in a different way).

I do see a timeskip of 2 years tbh.

 

I don't know why I've never thought about Norman being a completely different person than what the kids saw. That's an interesting idea. I can definitely see him refusing to return when Emma and Ray come back to rescue the others kids. I don't see Norman being brainwashed either (Can't rule out this possibility tho. It's 2045 and with the advancement in technology surely they have lots of devices to make the kids obey them?) But if he wasn't brainwashed, I can definitely see him wanting to stay back to learn more about the Demons like Raycont says (Edit: Mistook that, Thought Logic brought that up xD)

Yeah and Emma and Ray obviously wouldn't want to join them if it means only the ones that can prove to make a change join the organisation.
Normally I'd say it wouldn't matter about the numbers but only if it were adults. They could always use more people to help them. You know a group involved in fighting, another involved in provisions, Strategical plans against demons etc. I just don't think they'd be ready to accept all the kids or trust them to be of great use. Especially the ones who are 4.
I can see them testing each kid that would be a promising talent, some being excellent at intellectual thinking others at physical ability and both in few cases. At the very least someone who can provide some skill that would be of use. I'm not really sure what they would do to the others tho.

Although... What would you think of them having their own Mama to take care of the little kids. Too good to be true?
This manga is never happy so that possibility is very low haha. Unless that Mama is evil too. RIP kids then and all hope

 

What do you mean found out easily?
This is all based on the theory that Norman would become a scientist, so how does the tracker play any role?

I can't see him staying in there forever, just long enough to get more education and insight before eventually escaping HQ.

Though that's actually a theory for another day. xD

Who knows.
If this organization has existed for 30 years then maybe they are big enough to have that.
Maybe children have escaped from other orphanages before.

 

Oh yeah I messed up

Still though I'd like for him to have changed into more of a colder person. I'd love to see how Emma and Ray react to that.

 

@Raiden please share your thoughts on this. I will be posting about the neck tattoos later.

 

William Minerva could potentially be an Emmanuel Goldstein.

 

Okay so you mean like a person that may not actually exist and is just a persona that someone created to in this case get kids to flee the orphanages in order to raise them into powerful revolutionaries that will return the world to how it used to be before the separation happened?

What a long sentence.^^

 

More or less.