Discussion William Minvera is an organization

Discussion in 'The Promised Neverland' started by Raycont, Jun 12, 2017.

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  1. Raycont

    Raycont

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    Maybe they have multiple outposts and they aren't even going to their HQ right now?:camthinking:

    Yup and if Minerva turns out to be a grey or evil character this will once again be made very clear to those poor kids...

    That would be the third time then,

    1) They won't get adopted but killed
    2) There's actually a cliff and a huge forest behind the walls
    3) Possible Minerva incident
     
  2. LogicoftheVI

    LogicoftheVI

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    Well if he cannot protect the kids inside the Plantations then it's possible he can afford some form of protection for those who escape? He is living outside the facility. This is the world they live in, as we have seen from Sister Krone's back story there is some form of crazy messed up society that our main characters are going to be up against. Which should mean Minerva is also up against them? He can still be a hero who hasn't been able to win the war. Maybe he is similar to Aliceteria from Re:Creators? In which he's been fighting a losing battle for a long time? I want to know how/why these Demons were able to turn humanity on it's head like this. Hopefully Minerva has the answers.

    While I understand where you are coming from I don't necessarily agree. Similar to above we know Humans are the bottom so it is possible that he has to do some questionable things in order to be able to move accordingly. I could give an manga reference but that is a major spoilers for that series. Basically if things are so bad that humanity openly opposing the demons would lead to our eradication then it's possible he makes small sacrifices for the greater good. Again I see where you are coming from but I don't feel he needs to be vilified at this point.

    Well they cannot be easily deciphered or that would defeat the purpose. How can you help people escape if their captors know how you plan to communicate with them?

    Fair enough you are neutral on him but the signs point to Good. He helped them escape the Roots and they are being vigorously perused.

    If he is an actually person then I doubt he is at the facility. I believe that Scientist guy was one of his trusted subordinates.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 12, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 12, 2017 ---
    That would actually make a lot of sense. Just in case the enemy is able to crack their code, they still have another line of defense? It would also make sense to have multiple outposts/bases as we know the world is a very large place (and it seems Demons run shit).
     
  3. Railgun99

    Railgun99

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    Going by that, chances of Minerva being some different version of Captain Hook (from the fairy tale) is quite possible so he might really be a grey character here. I don't think he'll be evil as we already have an evil faction - the demons. What we're lacking atm is a grey faction/character...though to an extent Isabella was also a grey character....:hmmm:
     
  4. Sect D

    Sect D

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    @Raycont you have watched the movie "the maze runner" this manga setting is somewhat similar to it. If you havent, watch it...
     
  5. Railgun99

    Railgun99

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    I've read the books and watched them :D

    Yup, I get what you mean. There are many parallels with that and this series.
     
  6. LogicoftheVI

    LogicoftheVI

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    YES!!! Fits so well with the theme and the name tho right?

    To expand on the bolded a little bit. It could be that the smart ones are the ones entrusted with protecting humanity which would be a prefect parallel to how Ray/Emma/Norman/Phil/Gilda are protecting the other kids who aren't as bright as them? We know what Emma's reasons were but from a narrative perspective it could mean something major when they finally reach Minerva. Like maybe Minerva is only expecting 1 or 2 at a time yet they are coming with like 18? Just the sheer numbers they are arriving with could cause an issue?

    This is something we have speculated about for a while in the TPN thread. I personally feel that with how they were able to escape that the Demon's (at least at this facility) haven't had to deal with an escape before. Though they seem ready so it's quite possible. I find it hard to believe that someone who was brought up inside this system escaped and is now working from the inside to take them down?

    I really like this idea as Minerva could be a character more like Ray thinking of saving the many by sacrificing the few. But Emma and Norman see their talents as tools to achieve their goal. Maybe Minerva will be changed by Emma's resolve to save everyone and the fact they are going to be able to bring so many escapee's (some who should never have knew or been able to make it) with them when they arrive.

    I agree the resources and manpower needed are way too much for a single person to handle.

    I don't get what type of trap Minerva could be setting since we already have the sinister Demons hunting them? So he is helping them escape from the demons so that he can eat them himself? Maybe Minerva is a rival Demon factions and their aim is to take the best products from the other farm? This is like the only thing I can come up with for how Minerva = Evil could work out.

    1. Not sure how making a code that the demons don't understand is making the demons system look stupid? I mean no one said the Demon system was smart anyway, just organized and OP compared to humans in the story.
    2. The pen wasn't actually given to Krone she found it. At the point where Krone decided to give the pen to Norman she was pretty much fully aware of what would happen to her. No she didn't do it out of the goodness of her heart or because she was part of the organization but the fact is that W.M.'s tools are making it into the farm for various reasons. I am almost certain that Krone isn't the first in her situation, wich means others have made sacrifices for the future generations who don't know what they are being brought up in. Makes Minerva's group sound better now talking through this.
     
  7. Raycont

    Raycont

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    I haven't watched that movie, sorry.
    I'll watch it when I have the chance to do so.

    I don't know if there will be more Peter Pan references.
    There's not even a Peter Pan character in TPN.

    Isabella was grey, I agree.
    Her actions were evil but her motivations were understandable imo
     
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  8. Railgun99

    Railgun99

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    Yup I agree. Minerva might be very selective of the people they take in.

    Now that I think about it, Peter Pan represented freedom, didn't he? The embodiment of youth and basically remaining a child forever - eternal freedom etc etc. As you said before that the kids can't get to grow up as they're killed before it happens so, these are 2 contrasting points.....I'm not even sure where I'm going with this :(
     
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  9. Kagura

    Kagura

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    What if Minerva turns to be a demon and this pen and books with Morse codes was a way for him to find out the best of the best brains which he can devour in order to evolve into a superior being ? Hence he drops pen intentionally for farm children to pick up.
     
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  10. Raycont

    Raycont

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    Peter Pan was the one who brought the kids to Neverland though.
    No one fits this criteria and it is crucial to his character^^

    I think the author only took the name Neverland because it fits so perfectly and that's all the references we'll get.
    At least for now.

    He didn't drop it for farm children to pick up though.
    It was dropped and picked up by a Mama inside the HQ. A Mama that had completely different plans originally.

    Though the concept in itself makes sense.
     
  11. Railgun99

    Railgun99

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    That's true. Until we get more information about Minerva as a whole, I'll just keep this idea floating somewhat.

    Wonder if we'll see a changed Norman if Minerva does turn out to be an anti-hero.
     
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  12. Raycont

    Raycont

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    I wonder if Norman will come back as a changed person regardless of what Minerva turns out to be.
    If the theory of Norman becoming a scientist (is that worthy of its own thread?) turns out to be true, he probably has to undergo some rough training/education and he'll probably witness some disturbing things.
     
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  13. Sect D

    Sect D

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    Too many parallels likes Isolated place, brain development programs, escape, harvest, promise, demons?lol, survive, apocalypse, witch, allies...
    What you are saying is correct but scenario can be anything until the children reach that point.

    Minerva could be factory of demons and krone might have set them up to that point. After harvest comes the factory...second trial...
    By the setting, they seem to be an alien species yet they are able to speak human language not only that they can also negotiate with other human beings...that seems they are smart enough to do so...
    I agree with you they sure seems like an ally to children since they need one at this point.

    But i disagree krone knew about her fate. Or else instead of giving pen to norman, she could have just given it to demons to save her own ass unless minerva wasnt a part of demonic org.
     
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  14. Railgun99

    Railgun99

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    Exactly my point. He might not be the Norman everyone remembers.
     
  15. LogicoftheVI

    LogicoftheVI

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    Knowing her own fate and knowing the pen could have saved her are two completely different things. I for one do not think that Krone knew what the pen was completely. Why is this? Because she doesn't seem to know about the existence of William Minerva. Shit Emma, Norman, and Ray wouldn't even know if it wants for Phil. It took a very special set of circumstances for those 3 to figure shit out to this point. I highly doubt that Sister Krone who was on her own had any clue.

    Honestly with how this story is going he cannot be the Norman that we all remember by the time we see him again. If his life is anything like the females who are chosen as Mama candidates then he is fighting, struggling, and competing against other boys from other farms for the right to continue surviving. Who knows what he will have been through and what sacrifices he will have had to make to survive by the next time we see him?
     
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  16. Raycont

    Raycont

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    I completely agree.
    I also think Krone didn't fully understand the pen. She only knew that something was up with it.
    She may have seen the numbers it shows since that is easy to discover but if she never learned about William Minerva she wouldn't make the connection.

    Agreed.
    It will be interesting to see just how he changes and how Norman and Emma will react to the changes.

    Question though:
    How long of a timeskip will we need to get to actually see this?
    Will they free him when they return to the farm to save Phil and the others?
    Or will her undergo the full education until he's probably in his late teens or early twens?

    I know nobody can answer this but I think the version of Norman we would get would differ heavily.
     
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  17. Sect D

    Sect D

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    Krone might have concluded that the pen is a human technology from past which doesnot belong demon headquarters. Beside it also had a location. She must have opened it that is why she was able to write the location on it. (Refering from 0)
     
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  18. LogicoftheVI

    LogicoftheVI

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    1. Considering that the other kids they left behind are 4 and will start being shipped at 6 the lonest time skip we could be given early on is just less than 2 years imo.
    2. I want to say yes but that all really depends on the type of guy Norman is at the time. Has everything he has done up to that point been to reunite with his friends?
    3. With the amount of time before the kids plan to go back to save the others I don't think he can get a full education. But with the amount of time he will be there I could see him being brainwashed by the Demons and the rigors of the society he's now beginning to understand?

    The only reason our kids are able to use it is because they understand the connection between The Books and The Pen. That connection is William Minerva. From what we have been shown Krone doesn't have this knowledge, from her flash backs we can see she was all alone and decided to survive by defeating others who opposed her. This is driven home even further by her plan to unseat Isabella. Krone only knows of the Demon society she has been forced to live in she is ignorant of W.M. thus wouldn't be able to figure the pen out anyway because she doesn't have the book.
     
  19. Raycont

    Raycont

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    1) Yes they said that they wanted to return in 2 years and they will.
    2 + 3) I can't see him being brainwashed but he could have changed his mindset to a more negative angle. Or he could have met up with the scientist who dropped the pen and could actually be already part of a possible resistance.
    In that case he might refuse to leave because he want the education and insight into the Demon society he can't get anywhere else to possibly use it against the Demons at some point.
     
  20. Sect D

    Sect D

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    She might not have completely figure out but she seemed to have an idea about the pen that is why she gave to norman...

    Also, she wrote the location number from 0 point that just means she twisted pen to see it. For book reference i agree she might not know much...
     
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