Powers & Abilities Why the birdcage shouldn't have existed

Discussion in 'One Piece Manga Discussion' started by lol lol no mi user, Jan 11, 2018.

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  1. lol lol no mi user

    lol lol no mi user

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    I aim to present the reasons why I think that the birdcage used by Doflamingo is the worst plot device in One Piece, as well as one of the most inconsistent uses of DF. I'm not sure where is the most adequate place on the forum to post this, so I apologize beforehand for the possible misplacement.

    I will briefly sum up Doffy's feats regarding the birdcage:
    - The birdcage surrounds the entirety of Dressrosa and has strings close enough to eachother to stop a person from simply slipping between strings and escaping the birdcage.
    - The birdcage is seemingly unstoppable even when pushed against by hundreds, if not thousands of people, including extraordinary folk like a giant and a marine admiral.
    - The birdcage has seemingly indestructible strings, since no one could damage it even by a little bit.
    - Doffy can mantain and constantly contract the birdcage while he is focused on combat, attacking, getting hit, getting flown away by G4 attacks, etc.

    Okay. You may point out other significant feats, but regarding my analysis this is more than enough.

    Concerning size and number of strings: we have seen few examples of really high magnitude DF use. The most recent example is Streusen turning the collapsing Whole Cake castle into soft ingredients. That is coming from someone that has his DF for at least around 60 years. Pretty impressive, yeah. I think of Magellan, because he could create a very large amount of poison very quickly. There is also Kuzan freezing the giant waves created by WB. But beside someone like Whitebeard, whose DF was OP as all hell and high magnitude by itself, I can't think of many cases of really high scale DF usage. And then...comes the birdcage. The DF ability with the biggest radius and maybe even the largest volume of created matter( this is very speculative, but those are very tightly packed strings over a massive radius) shown thus far in the series. While Dressrosa is not that big of an island, it is by no means a small island. The birdcage must have been several Km in radius, especially considering how high up into the sky it went. Very impressive feat from Doffy to say the least, but not really the main issue I have with the birdcage.

    The last feat I listed is impressive as well, but other characters have been shown using their abilities almost involuntarily while in combat or similar activities. For that reason, I will skip it.

    My main issue with the birdcage is about the two "raw power" feats. Unstoppable and indestructible. Reading the Dressrosa Arc, I never had the impression that Doffy's strings could not be destructed. In fact, he imbued them with haki in order to harden them and damage certain characters. The strings are not like Barto's barrier, which is seemingly indestructible even without using haki to harden it.
    On the other hand, the strings also weren't shown to have such force when used in combat by Doffy's body that they could simply send people flying even when they pushed against it, or braced themselves to tank the hit.
    So how in the seven hells could the birdcage tank hits from major players in the arc? If they were imbued with haki, meh, maybe. Considering a character like Fujitora was present, who debatably should have better armament haki than Doffy, he could have cut the birdcage and freed the people he wished to save in the first place. But even if that was not the case, with G4 we discovered that one could run out of armament haki. Would Doffy really have so much armament haki that he could use it on every string of the massive birdcage while fighting? I think not. So the only explanation to the birdcage's resistence is plot armor, the best haki there is. And how could no amount of people stop the birdcage's movement? They hinted that they could be slowing it down, but as I stated previously, there is no indication that the strings are driven by some mystic unstoppable force and have like infinite mass or something, so they should obviously be stopped by someone like effin' Fujitora or Hajrudin.

    Think about it: if you can't destroy or stop the birdcage, why didn't Doffy use it on his opponents? Why didn't he surround people with a tiny spherecage? I imagine the only two people in Dressrosa who would be capable of surviving it are Bartolomeo and Law. But if Doffy was really specific with the cage, he would just summon it around their heads and quickly compress it, giving them no chance to defend/teleport against it. Hell, why doesn't he just kill Kaido if he has such an overpowered ability? Because the birdcage SHOULDN'T EXIST! It serves merely as a plot device coming out of nowhere, without any basis in the expectations that Oda had set for us until that point. It led to some of the worst drawn out parts of the already long Dressrosa Arc, and really should have never happened. I wish Oda had come up with a more reasonable way to neutralize the characters he had to neutralize, give us a sense of urgency and tension, and pressure Luffy into going all-out against Doffy.

    Please, leave your thoughts regarding the birdcage and my assessment of it. The critique can be expanded further, but I don't have the time ATM. Cheers!
     
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  2. vikas

    vikas

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    Yes you are right even i thought such an indestructible thing should not exist in one piece world...but it could be possible that in the future if by chance doffy is used for a plot then maybe his birdcage will be rendered useless... Also there is a chance that fujitora could have destroyed maybe..but he wanted luffy to defeat doffy and become a hero there.. so coul dbe the reason he did not..
     
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  3. LolonoisZolo

    LolonoisZolo

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    We can come up with a lot of reason as to why Doffy wouldnt use the Bird cage like you suggested but that would be pointless because it is like speculating on speculations :s
    With the info we have, I totally agree with what you said and you can add that he has been using this nonsense technique for many years but somehow never knew how to use it properly...
     
  4. Saduj

    Saduj

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    It was blatantly obvious Fujitora wasn't trying for real, it would undermine his entire motivation on the arc.
     
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  5. LolonoisZolo

    LolonoisZolo

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    Regarding the part with Fuji, I think that he didn't even try to cut it, same goes with any relevant character in the arc, for some reason nobody tried to cut it or hit it with haki :s
     
  6. The ASL Pirates

    The ASL Pirates

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    The birdcage is probably the most broken thing in all of One Piece. Coincidentally the thing that rivals it is also in the same arc in the hobi hobi no mi.
     
  7. LolonoisZolo

    LolonoisZolo

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    He pushed against it though and was helped by hundreds of strong people but was only able to stop it for a bit ? total nonsense :s
     
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  8. RobinGloriousBoobs

    RobinGloriousBoobs

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    The birdcage itself is fine, there is nothing haxxed about it since it also have many flaw, the main problem is how Oda execute it.

    It's biggest flaw is Doffy is the epicenter of it, that mean he will always be inside the birdcage and He reveal his own position by using that technique.

    The sad thing is Oda didn't exploit this flaw to show that birdcage isn't perfect.
    Instead of trying to destroy the birdcage by ganging up on Doffy they choose to stop it by just pushing it, which ended up showing the birdcage raw power.
    That is not showing how haxxed birdcage is but it's more like showcasing that they counter the birdcage wrong.
     
  9. LolonoisZolo

    LolonoisZolo

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    I see what you mean and you are right but what if Doffy makes a small bird cage around himself and expands it instead or just use it as a second skin for defense/offense (since it cuts anything in contact) ? this ability is plain wrong !
     
  10. The ASL Pirates

    The ASL Pirates

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    Not really. Everyone was fighting someone at the time. I mean the amount of underlings that Doffy had were ridiculous and by the time the major players would have been able to help they had to be healed to do anything and by the time they would have gotten to Luffy and Doffy, who if you recall were being thrown across Dressrosa willy nilly, there is nothing they could have done. Also the amount of characters that would have been able to do anything against Doffy are more than likely Zoro (who was all the way across town) and Barto (who was only temporarily healed by Mansherry) Law was out of action and Fuji wasn't gonna do anything. Sabo was busy with Burgess and his RA duties. There is a reason it went down the way it did and it has nothing to do with the way it was countered. Its a broken ability that should have either been nerfed in some way or all together thrown out.

    EDIT: You are also forgetting that everyone was trying to save the citizens as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  11. lol lol no mi user

    lol lol no mi user

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    Do you really think Fujitora, a marine whose sense of duty lies in protecting civillians, would not try to stop the birdcage ? How many elderly died, people hurt by debree etc? If I remember correctly, both Zoro and Fujitora tried to cut the birdcage and failed completely, and we can only assume that they would use haki to try and cut it because that is what strong people do in the New World. Again, even mentioning haki implies that Doffy was using his limited haki pool to harden ALL of the immense birdcage, because he could never "predict" where people would attack the birdcage and only harden those portions.

    There is another thing I forgot to mention: if I'm not mistaken, the birdcage is the only canon move that has pushed Barto's barrier back. Not even Elizabello's punch pushed it back.
     
  12. LolonoisZolo

    LolonoisZolo

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    I do not recall any panel where Zoro or Fujitora or anybody relevant tried to cut it or hit it though, do you have any in mind ?
     
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  13. Wilsane

    Wilsane

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    Well maybe that power goes to by having your fruit awakened.
     
  14. The ASL Pirates

    The ASL Pirates

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    Doubt it since every indication is that awakening allows you to turn things into your substance. At least Doffy's and kata's are.
     
  15. Wilsane

    Wilsane

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    that cage space must be a thing i might say
     
  16. Redx

    Redx

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    He flat out stated he wasn't trying to. He placed his hopes in the pirates and the people because the Marines weren't worthy of saving the day.
     
  17. lol lol no mi user

    lol lol no mi user

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    Is it written that he must be the epicenter? Because when he was flung by Kong Gun it did not move the whole birdcage in that direction. And it does not reveal his position at all, there is no giant thread connecting him to the birdcage that would indicate his position.

    And what flaws are you reffering to? You did not list any. Defeating the DF user is a counter for all devil fruit powers, so it is not a flaw of the power itself. The whole point is that there is no other way short of defeating Doffy, which is what they do, making the birdcage overpowered.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 11, 2018 ---
    No, I was checking and neither strike against it, only push against it. That is still very strange. Why did they not even try? That would be the first logical thing to do. Hence Oda wants it to be at least seen as indestructible. Which is still a big problem for the consistency of Doffy's powers.

    Besides, if you consider what happened to Hack's hand when it hit Barto's barrier, and you assume that the birdcage is pushing with immense amounts of force, then the birdcage PUSHING BACK Barto's barrier(it had help btw) is already a surreal durability feat. One could discuss the defense properties of Barto's barrier when struck by something much bigger than it, I'm pretty sure Barto hints at some point that such a strike could be troublesome, but it's gray.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  18. Celestial D. Dragon

    Celestial D. Dragon

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    The Birdcage was way to big to cut down at the base.... The thing spanned at least 4-5 miles in width... You can cut 10 strings in a row, and by the time you move on to the next 10 strings, then Doflamingo would just reconnect the other 10 you just cut...

    The only person who could have stopped it was Fujitora, and he already stated he was leaving the fate of Dressrosa in Luffy and Laws hands.....

    As far as why the didn't gang up against Doflamingo? They couldn't... From the edge of the Birdcage (Where everyone was) to the center (Where Doflamingo was) is a mile or two away... There is no way in hell they would have been able to make it to Doflamingo in time, and not have had any civilian casualties, which is why they chose to trust in Luffy and do their best to stop the Birdcage from killing anyone...

    The Birdcage only worked because of the circumstances where the was plenty of weak citizens who needed to be saved.... In a one on one fight against a strong opponent, it is completely useless....
     
  19. Saduj

    Saduj

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    Fujitora is a gambler, he bet all those civilian lives that Luffy would succeed on defeating Doflamingo, It's an aspect of his character that's direcly inspired by Zatoichi, whom he is based on.
     
  20. Helheim

    Helheim

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    It's just to add drama, unnecessary one if you ask me, like there are what 5 main characters inside the bird cage they'll be fine.
     
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