1. This forum is dedicated for discussion of Theories & Speculations created using our Theories & Speculations platform.
    • To publish a new theory or speculation, click here
    • To see a list of all theories & speculations, read, rate and review click here

Theory The Life of Kuzan - The Revolutionary Spy

A theory on Kuzan's journey and becoming a revolutionary.

Share This Page

  1. Slade

    Slade

    Messages:
    2,510
    Likes Received:
    46,824
    Trophy Points:
    16,550
    Bounty Points:
    25,700
    Sorry for the delayed response on the reviews. Will certainly do so tomorrow :)

    True. I didn't consider film Z's influence only since its yet to be considered canon. In Chapter 0, they did show Kuzan admiring Garp alot so it is possible he wanted to be like him and have his own sense of justice.

    Why I feel he would have been a Revo when he was already in the marined is also because Garp was already a legend and untouchable despite people knowing later on he raised Ace and Luffy and Dragon being his son. Kuzan maynot have been eligible for similar respite and hence unable to exercise his justice as he pleases and may have found revolutionaries better than marines and jumped ship. I don't have anything more to support that though and covered all the points I had in the theory :D
     
    Syed, edogama and Divvens like this.
  2. Railgun99

    Railgun99 Wanted! Wanted

    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    132,793
    Trophy Points:
    17,970
    Bounty Points:
    12,450
    A question here! Is Film Z considered canon? I watched it, yes, and I've been hearing a lot about some parts being canon and all but is the whole movie considered canon? Or like some parts?

    On a side note, I'm almost convinced that Kuzan admired Garp a lot! :D
     
    Syed, edogama and Slade like this.
  3. CrasH SantiaGO

    CrasH SantiaGO

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    2,410
    Bounty Points:
    0
    " Well researched, and this is not just a Hteory because we want to.
    There are really some aspects in the manga which Oda really doesn't explain but if you dig further, it's
    all connected.

    Haven't suspected it before, just had a hint when he resign from the marines.
    However there's really a bond with Garp.
    He's an admiral and Garp is vice, but he's like the one respecting Garp much more.

    But he will really reveal his true identity in the coming wars.
     
    Slade likes this.
  4. L o g i a

    L o g i a

    Messages:
    9,333
    Likes Received:
    80,649
    Trophy Points:
    29,030
    Bounty Points:
    6,200
    A lot of the criticism is void and addressed in the theory. Plus the whole " Aokiji might be a rev, but we dont have enough evidence atm " line cracked me up. The point of a theory is to make use of very little information and derive a possibility that may occur in future. There's a fair bit of evidence in the theory - granted, not too much, but the way it's used is effective and makes good points.
     
    RZ_Senpai and Syed like this.
  5. Nidai_Kitetsu

    Nidai_Kitetsu

    Messages:
    4,234
    Likes Received:
    14,843
    Trophy Points:
    20,540
    Bounty Points:
    28,600
    I gave his theory 3 star, not bad, eh? If I read it correctly, (1) Aokiji wanders off sometimes and (2) he said there is not a decent person in the family are his main two evidence behind the theory (the only 2 bolded sentence).
    I was probably harsh on point 2 because Aokiji did say that he is indebted to Garp, but point 1, Aokiji wandering around is a weak evidence in my opinion.
     
  6. L o g i a

    L o g i a

    Messages:
    9,333
    Likes Received:
    80,649
    Trophy Points:
    29,030
    Bounty Points:
    6,200
    There's a lot more to it than that but okay, I'll roll with it.

    Nobody in One Piece is a free vigilante who wonders the New World alone. He may be in an alliance with Teach but there is no trust in their relationship. Oda has given the impression that Kuzan is under orders to gain Teach's trust. Kuzan seemingly must be affiliated with somebody and it's clearly not Pirates, World Government or Marines. It's a simple syllogism really.

    I believe that's what @Slade had in mind with regards to the wandering. Of course there's less evidence for this point but sometimes you (as a reader) are required to understand the perspective of the theorist. Rational thought can help derive conclusions even on little evidence.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  7. Divvens

    Divvens

    Messages:
    26,032
    Likes Received:
    262,056
    Trophy Points:
    32,950
    Bounty Points:
    849,984,950
    This is not the right platform to discuss reviews, if you feel a review is unjust report it (in this case, it's not). The reader has his/her freedom in the ratings, that's from their perspective and opinion and how the rating is supposed to be used as you get different people with different opinions and views reading content. The theory author has no objection to the review and has left a suitable response, so there is no need to take that further. You may discuss the content, but not the review anymore.

    Thank you.
     
    Syed likes this.
  8. L o g i a

    L o g i a

    Messages:
    9,333
    Likes Received:
    80,649
    Trophy Points:
    29,030
    Bounty Points:
    6,200
    It's not something worth reporting but it's just an unfair review as it gives the impression @Nidai_Kitetsu simply read select parts of the theory and not the whole thing. An illegitimate review, if you will. Sorry for discussing a review here but where else can we discuss it given we can't respond to reviews unless we ourselves made the theory?
     
  9. Divvens

    Divvens

    Messages:
    26,032
    Likes Received:
    262,056
    Trophy Points:
    32,950
    Bounty Points:
    849,984,950
    Either via reporting (and you get an alert from us either rejecting or resolving), or you can discuss with the reviewer via personal conversation if you wish to. Since its the theory creator whose work is being rated, it is they that get the first and priority preference to respond to reviews as they see fit. Discussing reviews will have a negative impact and deter reviewers, especially those that leave a negative rating when it is completely justified (there are 1 star ratings that are justified, but if we pick and choose to allow discussions it won't be fair, we have to maintain a common standard).

    In your opinion it is an illegitimate review, but in the opinion of the reviewer it could be completely alright. An example would be the 1 star rating on my Big Mom Character Theory (if you would view it). I wouldn't call the 1 star rating there unfair, it's the opinion of the reviewer, and as the author I responded. That's where it ends, if others start interfering in the review process it will get messy. Thus, you can discuss the theory and debate about content, but not the rating itself.
     
    Syed, Shanksette, SMILE and 1 other person like this.
  10. Divvens

    Divvens

    Messages:
    26,032
    Likes Received:
    262,056
    Trophy Points:
    32,950
    Bounty Points:
    849,984,950
    That was my general statement for all theories, not just mine. It was not me being hypocritical - I was only pointing out something that works for all theories (if you would read further I explained the logical end of all theories and such).

    I would request you to not continue this topic here, you can start a conversation with me, and for your talks with Nidai if you wish to start a conversation with him.

    I'll be deleting further off-topic posts.
     
    Ivan Zonder, Syed, Shanksette and 2 others like this.
  11. RZ_Senpai

    RZ_Senpai

    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    3,885
    Trophy Points:
    9,580
    Bounty Points:
    16,550
    An excellent theory which has left me impressed!

    I thought it included logical deductions based on the evidence available - in contrast to this we do not have enough evidence yet to conclude it with certainty. But as far as I am concerned, if there was a high degree of certainty in these topics then there would be no point or interest in these theories.

    In terms of the topics itself, the idea of Kuzan being a revolutionary has been a discussion point for myself and a friend for a while. It was great to read someone else's interpretation of why he may be a revolutionary spy. There is definitely evidence, as presented in your theory, which supports it and it brings forward a bigger picture within the One Piece world - who could be hidden as a revolutionary spy? This is one area in which I expect Oda to have some surprises in store, be it Kuzan or other spies.
     
    Syed and Slade like this.
  12. mettalica.D.symon

    mettalica.D.symon

    Messages:
    14,865
    Likes Received:
    48,396
    Trophy Points:
    32,000
    Bounty Points:
    1,700
    Nice theory man. Well crafted and super easy to follow and connect your ideas. I like how you compared the three generations that Garp raised. It's really quite possible that he was indeed raised by Garp. His actions at Ohara have always bugged amd your theory kind of presents a possible answer why he always spares Robin. One thing though I don't think he could have sacrificed an arm, I personally believe he had an all out war and lost. Him joining the BB pirates seems out of character and the thought he is indeed a revo spy makes much sense than him simply becoming a pirate.
     
    Slade and Syed like this.
  13. PedroQ

    PedroQ

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Bounty Points:
    0
    I really do hope this is true. It must be. I mean Aokiji joining BB's crew???? Wtf?? gotta be as spy or something similar. Don't see any relation between what kuzan always defended and stood up to, to what BB represent and his goals. Is he trying to spy the method BB's crew use to steal DF?

    What about the WG? I mean kuzan left them and officially joined BB's pirates. WG does nothing? no bounty?
    And in Dressrosa, Luffy was fighting Mingo, a celestial dragon blood , and somewhat causing damage. With Cipher Pol , CP0 in the island and being the cipher pol an organization that links the 5 elders to the celestial dragons, why would they let luffy beat mingo??
     
    Slade likes this.
  14. ThatGreekLady

    ThatGreekLady

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    810
    Bounty Points:
    0
    I don't think he's a revolutionary and I will explain why:

    1)Despite the faults of the government, Aokiji was shown to be a loyal marine. Even after Akainu took over, he didn't want to quit. He wanted to become fleet admiral! This in my opinion shows that Aokiji respects the navy. He only quit after he lost to Akainu. Which brings me to number 2.

    2)If Kuzan was a revolutionary spy, wouldn't it be better for him to stay with the marines as a spy there? Now that Kuma is brandead, they probably need a replacement. So why didn't he stay?

    3)If Kuzan was a revolutionary, wouldn't characters like Ivankov have mentioned something? Or even Robin after the timeskip?

    4)When we saw Kuzan after the timeskip, he seemed a bit lost and not sure what to do. He didn't seem to have a clear goal at that point.

    5)In film Z Robin seemed a bit scared when she saw him. If she knew he was a revo, would she have reacted like this?

    6)Even if he didn't kill Robin, he still didn't seem to trust her after all those years. It took quite some time for him to trust her.

    I honestly think Kuzan is working alone now, or is still secretly alleid with the marines in some way.
     
  15. Efroni

    Efroni

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    635
    Bounty Points:
    0
    LOVED IT!
    One problem....
    The revolutionary was looking for robin for a long time, if it was so easy for kuzan to find her he would have let them know
     
    Ivan Zonder likes this.
  16. DudeFord111

    DudeFord111

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    1,635
    Bounty Points:
    0
    This theory impressed me a lot.Even if we come back to a chapter where akainu killed ace we can see that aokiji didn't look happy at all.I support your idea:)
     
  17. aggiefan13

    aggiefan13

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    715
    Bounty Points:
    0
    I really enjoyed the theory, and I have done my best to read through the points brought up in the discussion in addition to the theory. I think you have done a great job delving through the story and looking for hints. Most of the differences I see when I interpret the points you brought up don't change the Kuzan is involved with the Revolutionary Army, but just the details of the nature of that affiliation.

    A point I'm not sure about is your take on the nature of the relationship between Dragon and Kuzan. I think it is just as likely that Dragon may have been a reason for Kuzan's acceptance of different views of justice, even though they don't coincide with his own. I am a little more partial to the idea that they were friends and pursued different paths with the same goal in mind when Dragon became a revolutionary. However, However, because the two of them were essentially pursuing the same goal via different means, they respected one another. This could lead Kuzan to keep tabs on Robin because he knows of her importance to the Revolution's cause. If Dragon was to go astray or die, he could squash the revolution by killing Robin. It would serve as a way for him to serve as a check against the revolution. I can imagine Kuzan wanting to have ability to protect the integrity of different justice institutions. He probably felt the Navy was under threat of losing its way if Akainu won the job of Fleet Admiral. Therefore, he took it as a responsibility to try and stop that disaster. When he couldn't divert it he left the organization, as it had nothing left to offer him.

    Because of the nature of theories (very little info, lots of speculation, and references to ambiguous points in the story), I know it is not possible to discuss you conjectures as right or wrong. I am interested in why you predict Kuzan has such a long running attachment to the Revolutionary Army. Rather, he could just be a man who has a very strong personal sense of justice and has no real attachment to the institutions that give him the ability exercise it. If you provided specific reasons to speculate one way rather than the other in the theory, please let me know. But basically, I see the point of Ohara shaking his faith in the Marines as one of those moments where he would say, "I can change the system [Navy] from within." Only once he fails to rise to the top, does he say, "this institution can't help me and I can look to other avenues allow me to exercise my justice."

    Even though I have these differences in opinion, I wanted to let you know that you have convinced me that Kuzan has some connection with the Revolutionary Army. I just wanted to say again that I really appreciated the work and creativity it took to create this theory. I look forward to hearing any responses you could offer about my questions (I'll try to change the color of the font where I asked the question so you can find it easier).

    Cheers
     
    Whis likes this.
  18. Whis

    Whis

    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    780
    Bounty Points:
    0
    An excellent wonderful theory, and Kuzu will tell Luffy the weakness of Yami Yami Devil Fruit and Gura Gura Devil Fruit. But also, he'll be useful to help Luffy with searching for Raftel or give all information behind the world governament and where they is.

    Currently, by now Kuzu is about to make moves after Kaido Arc, talking to Luffy and besides inform him about Blackbeard's ultimate plan. Thank you very much for creating this such wonderful theory and put evidence.

    Thank you, you made us to understand behind saving Luffy & Robin without act it.
     
  19. Erkan12

    Erkan12

    Messages:
    2,322
    Likes Received:
    2,552
    Trophy Points:
    12,810
    Bounty Points:
    1
    Spy theories are just too obvious I mean even Burgess knew that you can't trust Kuzan, but that's not it. Not always good guys are always good guys.

    Look at Zephyr... He was a Marine Admiral, and then he become a criminal, died by Kizaru's hands.

    Aokiji is still fighting against Akainu, he lost the duel but he is fighting on different areas. He is trying to destroy Akainu's marines, that's what he was doing. If his job was spying around others, that would be obvious since no one would trust him. No, he doesn't like the idea about Akainu being the fleet admiral, he left the Navy for that reason and he even dueled with Akainu for that reason, that's the first time in the history, two admirals fighting with each other. Aokiji really really hates Akainu. And he is trying to destroy Akainu's Marine corps.

    For that, he already started to work with underground gangs, and then 1 year later Blackbeard has become a Yonko, then they both understand they share the common enemy, they both want to destroy the Marines and WG, so why not join hands ? Blackbeard and Aokiji alliance is all about that. Aokiji will never accept the Marines as long as Akainu is the fleet Admiral. I mean Akainu even said to the Gorousei that he is no longer with them. That should settle the spy theories, since Gorousei would certainly know if Aokiji was a spy.

    Just consider what happened after Aokiji warned Smoker about Doflamingo ? Akainu's Marine lost confidence and Fujitora was fighting Akainu at the end. Aokiji knew that Admirals couldn't touch Doflamingo due to Shichibukai title and that would show Akainu's marines weak to the world. That was Aokiji true intention and he was successful.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice