General & Other Sanji's New world downfall

Discussion in 'One Piece Manga Discussion' started by Fireflyfx, Jul 9, 2018.

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Do you think that Sanji has gotten worse as a character after the timeskip?

  1. Yes

    103 vote(s)
    49.5%
  2. No

    87 vote(s)
    41.8%
  3. I'm currently undecided

    18 vote(s)
    8.7%
  1. Fireflyfx

    Fireflyfx

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    So, now that the reverie is on hold and we have rejoined the crew people have continued their Discussions surrounding Sanji i decided i would throw in my two cents on why i think his character has gotten worse after the time skip, but especially in the new world.

    So before we start I want you to know that Sanji was and still is my Favourite Crewmate, what i want to talk to you about why he is now my least favourite straw hat to watch. So lets start with fishman island, as I've said I don't really view this arc as much of a problem, at this point his exaggerated perviness was understandable and hadn't gotten old yet (it also lead to some fun interactions with chopper and the mermaids), and like the rest of the crew he showcased what he had learnt over the time skip, so overall for Sanji Fishman Island was a pretty chill arc.

    Overall Punk hazard was the same, his perviness was toned down a little (back in the direction of pre time skip levels) once again he had some fun moments like his usual bickering with Zoro and tsundere moments with kinimon and the children, there was however one controversial moment that being his fight with Vergo in which he was implied to have been at a disadvantage, now when this occurred I was among the people defending it 'Sanji's body was weakened by Nami' 'Vergo possessed full body haki which was at that point in time the strongest we had seen' but most importantly the reason for this fight was a return to form for Sanji. Swooping in at the last second to save the day with a suave line (A part of his character most fans call mr prince), and so the perceived loss was forgiven with fans saying that Sanji wasn't being pushed to his limits and that he would show what he was capable of in the arc this one was setting up.

    Fast forward to Dressrosa and it was still looking good he had an interesting story with viola and and once again swooped in to save people, although this time he was caught immediately and had to be saved by law, but once again this was forgiven, after all its Doflamigo, we're talking about the man who toyed with the crew of a yonko, plus Sanji didn't know about his powers. However what I personally couldn't forgive was the portrayal of Doffy's commanders, if all of three of them were so easily dispatched then what does that say about Vergo?

    Zoe was mainly uneventful but with it came hope for salvation, the infamous 'year of Sanji', fans got there hopes up thinking this arc would be great for him. And at the start it was, I think most people can agree that the first part of whole cake was good, interesting plot points and character struggles were shown and the actual tea party was chaotic and fun. But then it took a turn for the worse, like many people were dreading Sanji was whisked away from conflict to bake a cake whilst leaving the rest of the crew to fend for them selves. Now this would have been ok if the cake plot itself wasn't garbage, it broke the number one rule of story telling (show don't tell) with every character around him feeling the need to jerk of his cooking skills, so with the lack of tension surrounding it people started wondering what this cake would do. We already new it would please big mom so what would happen after became highly speculated, so what happened when Big Mon ate the cake? it was good, what a surprise....

    But it was fine the arc wasn't over and although one of the few things Sanji currently had over anyone else in the crew (his observation haki) was currently being one uped by luffy there was still a chance for redemption, and it came in the form of one line 'I will definitely save my captain' once again it was his time to shine in the area he was best at, saving others. He had one page, before getting no diffed by fodder and saved by his brothers. And on that note lets take a second to talk about the Vinsmokes, the arc spend a lot of time painting them in a bad light and vilifying them right to the end. But then they saved Sanji's sorry ass and handed him a raid suit saying your to weak take this, so basically the Vinsmokes were in the right, the entire message of the arc was torn to shreds.

    TL;DR: Sanji's character and combat prowess have been slowly destroyed since the start of the new world making him much less enjoyable to watch.

    And now we come to the latest chapter, up until this i could still enjoy watching him, sure the time skip hadn't been kind to him but he was still the same character I came to enjoy. The latest chapter reverted him to the level of perveyness that he was at in Fishman Island (and it was starting to get old even then), but not only that he was also arrogant deluded and honestly just disgusting to watch. This chapter was the last straw for me, and whilst his character could be fixed in the future i no longer have the faith in Oda to do so , and even in the event that his character is improved this period of time will forever remain a dark spot for me.

    Sorry for the long winded post, but with the recent chapter and Sanji returning to be a hot topic I wanted to discuss my views and talk about why the series has become a lot less enjoyable for me to read.
     
  2. KingOfThePirates

    KingOfThePirates

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    He’s gotten objectively better character development than any character ever since the timeskip, with more tangible dilemmas and stronger convictions than anyone by the end of the Whole Cake Island arc.

    So...

    That would be a No.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  3. Tiago

    Tiago

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    Give it some time, maybe you will change your mind. One Piece is not over yet
     
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  4. Shuyaku

    Shuyaku Roger

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    Was the perv gag really THIS bad ? This isn't the first post talking about it, and it's not unlike what Sanji's done in the past, i think you guys are just overreacting a lot.

    I think people are just nitpicking, it's mainly Sanji's lack of combat feats that make him less enjoyable for people, if he starts kicking ass trust me there wouldn't be any posts about Sanji's fall from grace or whatever.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  5. Fireflyfx

    Fireflyfx

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    He has always been a lech, but he used to at least be a suave one. Just think back to his introduction and what it would be like if it happened now. There would be nothing smooth of classy about it, just a perverted mess.


    Whilst this is true a lot of it was spit on with Sanji being given the raid suit, and like a said it was this last chapter that was the final straw for me, you would think that with the whole pudding ordeal Oda would have returned his perviness to normal levels but instead he decided to turn it up to 11, and honestly for me the last chapter was the most unbearable he has been in the series. And with his physical feats left in the dust he has nothing left to lean on if his character goes too.
     
  6. Monkey D Theories

    Monkey D Theories

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    no they didnt

    the reveal of the vinsmoke slaughter plot clearly brought a shift of the vinsmokes from villain to ally

    and the vinsmokes giving sanji a raid suit doesnt mean that he is weak. lol the vinsmokes themselves use the suits, but thought sanji would never be strong enough to be a good soldier, by giving him a suit doesnt that mean that they accept him?
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2018 ---
    if you have it, address it with OP in general

    you cant talk about sanji's perv gags without talking about every single other gag in OP
     
  7. Shuyaku

    Shuyaku Roger

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    Eh, i understand your complaints but nonetheless i think you and a lot of other people are exaggerating when it comes to the pervy stuff.

    The main aspect i find less enjoyable about Sanji post TS is his lack of combat feats, which Oda should and hopefully will fix this arc.
     
  8. Monkey D Theories

    Monkey D Theories

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    like you can make the argument that gags devalue characters by turning them into memes, but this isn't just sanji.

    and if you are offended by sanji being a perv, just remember that the author of black clover has one of the lead character be a pedophile who wants to fuck his 6 year old sister.
     
  9. Hakipotence

    Hakipotence

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    How has it gotten worse though? Sanji's character drastically increased thanks to WCI.

    Dude got the most character in the entire crew.
     
  10. Monkey D Theories

    Monkey D Theories

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    like sanji isn't even that bad. He just finds women attractive, but he doesn't actually sexually harass girls, like pervs in other manga do
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2018 ---
    the cake plot didn't ruin sanji's character, it was just a bad plot. I don't see why we have to conflate the two.

    if anything, one of the big things of the cake plot was that it allowed for pudding and sanji's relationship to grow.
     
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  11. Shuyaku

    Shuyaku Roger

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    what the hell lol
     
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  12. Tyrant

    Tyrant

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    Lol, he's still the same person from the begging like everyone other SH.
     
  13. Monkey D Theories

    Monkey D Theories

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    this is why i dont read black clover
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2018 ---
    and im not even joking about this. the "sanji" of black clover is literally a pedophile
     
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  14. Tyrant

    Tyrant

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    Too bad it don't mean shit anymore, she wiped his memories.
     
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  15. D Sanji

    D Sanji

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    Sanji has fallen as a fighter so far in the NW. But as a character....WCI made him way more likeable.
     
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  16. Monkey D Theories

    Monkey D Theories

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    Vergo was portrayed as stronger than pica
    1. Law called him doffy's most important subordinate
    2. doffy wanted to make law his right hand man and hence left the heart seat open for him. This, along with the fact that doffy's own brother was on the heart seat, portrays the heart seat as the right hand man of doffy, meaning vergo was doffy's right hand.
    3. Law defeated vergo and law, having a higher bounty and being portrayed as a rival of luffy, had better portrayal than zoro, at least in PH. So him beating vergo means vergo>pica
    and zoro needed to use his strongest non-asura attack to take out Pica, with law using his strongest slash shown yet to beat vergo.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2018 ---
    no he hasn't

    hell memories is his strongest move yet, and he hasnt used it since FI, meaning he is yet to go all out in the NW.

    in any case, he was portrayed to be stronger than Oven, who was one of the highest ranking members of the BMP outside of the SC and BM herself
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2018 ---
    like my god, why do fans get so melodramatic over sanji? No his character wasn't destroyed and he is still one of the strongest fighters in the NW(relatively speaking, obviously he's not top tier)
     
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  17. vikas

    vikas

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    It was more of his DF rather than sword attack tbh.
     
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  18. Naito

    Naito Roger

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    It's just cool at the moment to nitpick at everything Sanji does.
    But I do get it. Sometimes I get really annoyed by Nami's running gag... like that time she learned how important Momo is. It was kinda gross... but I don't hate Nami in the long run.

    I think Sanji's fine and I'm actually content with his arc. I like it when fictional characters reach low points and break down... it grounds them and gives them a sense of realism. I think he learned a great deal this past arc and evolved as a person, he made peace with his past too and reaffirmed that he is his own man and should keep following his personal believes. The suit might kinda ruin that a bit, but w/e... I hope at least it's a tuxedo.

    If it looks like he didn't learn much, that's because that's how One Piece is. No matter how much a character evolves throughout the series, Oda will always reduce them to their simplest version for the most part.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  19. D Sanji

    D Sanji

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    I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying Sanji is weak. He obviously hasn't gone all out.. But the way Oda has treated him so far in the combat aspect isn't really good. He hasn't really focussed on his combat aside from a few feats here and there.
     
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  20. Monkey D Theories

    Monkey D Theories

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    you know what i mean
     
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