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Theory Olvia And Saul Are Alive? The Formation Of The Revolutionary Army

The Aftermath of Ohara's Buster Call

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  1. Su Long Bepo

    Su Long Bepo

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    Su Long Bepo submitted new content in Theories & Speculations:

    Olvia And Saul Are Alive? The Formation Of The Revolutionary Army - The aftermath of Ohara's buster call

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    --- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2019, Original Post Date: May 6, 2019 ---
    @RandaAlzifahri Even if Dragon has scholars on his side, wouldn't Olvia still want to find her daughter? :smirk::wink:
     
  2. Donal D. Trump

    Donal D. Trump

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    I thought the exact same thing as @RandaAlzifahri

    The revolution is the one place where they can't be. Otherwise the dialogue in Tequila Wolf makes no sense. Dragon wouldn't think that Robin was the "last hope" or whatever he exactly said.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  3. Su Long Bepo

    Su Long Bepo

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    @Coquet Regarding your review:


    I never said that Dragon hid the fact that her mother was still alive. In fact, I believe they did meet. We conveniently didn't see a single interaction from Robin on Baltigo during the timeskip. She didn't tell the straw hats about Koala or Sabo, why would she mention her mother?

    As for Ohara survivors, you say it would make their sacrifices useless what are you referring to? From the very beginning, Robin wanted to learn how to read the poneglyphs specifically so she could study alongside her mother and the rest of the scholars.

    In terms of weakening her backstory, I disagree completely. The sentimentality of revolving around Robin and Olvia had to do with separation, not a presumed death. After being alone for the past 6 years, Robin was sad because she was being separated from her mother again, not because of her mother dying. (Which by the way, was never shown to have happened anyways.)
     
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  4. Donal D. Trump

    Donal D. Trump

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    I know this isn't meant to me but you are obfuscating. You must know that the fall of Ohara and their people was the major trauma in Robin's life and it just being a false pretense minimizes that. To state what kind of hurt that was isn't the point. Also, he didn't say that Robin would hide it from the Straw hats(do they even know about Ohara?), they are never talking about such things. He said that Dragon would have to hide it from Robin because he clearly didn't tell her about it. Otherwise this wouldn't have ever been stated...

    [​IMG]
    If you have an explanation I would love to hear it but muddying the water isn't helping us understanding your position.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  5. Coquet

    Coquet Wanted! Wanted Roger Cracker Smoothie

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    I totally agree with @Donal D. Trump , it started well, your theory was intriguing and that's why I began reading with an open mind, but then it went fanfiction when you involved Dragon.

    This time, you can't back up your claims, they goes against the very story of One Piece, but it doesn't mean you have to stop making theories. 'Til next time, :catsalute:
     
  6. Su Long Bepo

    Su Long Bepo

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    Sorry if I wasn't clear.

    His first point was that Dragon wouldn't have been able to hide it from Robin. I'm saying he didn't hide it, and she did in fact meet her mother during the timeskip, and it just wasn't revealed to us the same way that her interactions with Sabo or Koala weren't revealed to us. I brought up Sabo specifically because this was a counterargument used in the past against the "Sabo is alive" theories: "If Sabo is with the Revolutionary Army, why didn't Robin tell Luffy about Sabo?"

    His second point was that if the Oharan scholars survived, their sacrifice to the plot would be useless. Their "death" is not what motivated Robin to study the poneglyphs. Sure, it definitely contributed to her sad backstory, but the specific reason she studied so hard to become an archeologist was to study with them. I think too many people believe Robin's importance diminishes to nothingness if she isn't the only one that can read the poneglyphs. There are 30, after all, and I don't believe there is even a possibility that she will find all of them on her own.

    He also said it would weaken Robin's backstory (and that might be true to some extent) but not to the extremes that you describe. The presumed deaths of the scholars are not what caused Robin the most trauma; it was specifically being separated from her mom. Whether the scholars are alive or not, it was still a traumatic experience nonetheless - the destruction of the island, being separated from her mom after barely reuniting with her, Clover was shot in front of her, Saul being frozen solid right in front of her, having to run through the burning island to escape, having to live on her own and run from the government for years - it all still happened.

    Hopefully that clarified what I was trying to convey.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2019, Original Post Date: May 6, 2019 ---
    I don't mind you disagreeing with me or the way I rationalized it (in fact, I prefer when people disagree since it promotes discussion), but it wasn't fanfiction by any means. That just sounds kind of insulting honestly :grimacing: not that I mind really. Regardless, I do appreciate you taking the time to read through it and leave a review.
     
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  7. Donal D. Trump

    Donal D. Trump

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    I guess I shouldn't have thrown in that last sentence because it can be understood like we don't know your position. We know your position and why you think that way, we are saying that the revo's and Dragon believe Robin to be be the last survivor of Ohara. It was literally stated and you are addressing a point nobody is making. Nobody denies that Ohara was about this and that, the general truth is that its the biggest trauma in her life that was finally resolved in Ennies Lobby by the Straw Hat Pirates. Them being alive mitigates Robin's arc if it was just a fake out. This is a simple fact and to say "it isn't mitigating because Robin couldn't study WITH them any longer, this is more of a trauma than the other thing" is simple obfuscation. Most importantly, you are ignoring the obvious that it was just in her head for 18-20 years. They where alive the entire time and Robin had a place where everyone she loved was still alive. She didn't had to flee and all her suffering until she found the Straw hats was in vain.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  8. Su Long Bepo

    Su Long Bepo

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    Not true, we know what the revs think but nothing of what Dragon thinks.

    And yes, I have seen that panel before and it's one of the things I wanted to address in the post. (I just didn't wanna delay posting any longer because whenever I save drafts OJ randomly deletes my theories.) Anyways, in the Vivrecard Databook it states that there is a secret that Dragon keeps from his subordinates, and even if they found out they would still be loyal to them. What if he hid the fact that some of the revolutionaries were scholars of Ohara? Theoretically speaking, they would have been the founding members and there would have been nobody that preceded them.

    As for why Dragon would keep it hidden, I could see it being to preserve and conceal their identity. Similar to how Fisher Tiger got rid of the slave branding so that nobody would be distinguished as a slave. (Not a perfect comparison, but I think it gets the point across.)
    --- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2019, Original Post Date: May 6, 2019 ---
    Again, if you disagree or feel like all of this is too unlikely because you believe it would adversely affect the story, I can understand that. But as of now, I have yet to see anything that disproves the possibility.
     
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  9. Donal D. Trump

    Donal D. Trump

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    That is a non sequitur, the vivre card entry doesn't indicate that Dragon's secret is Ohara. How could it? Did he went alone to save them? That is not a thing, nobody can travel alone with a ship. Did he jumped from island to island one at a time? The marines(and Akainu I might add, who 100% made sure) would never let a ship come near Ohara any time soon. So the revo's would know about it and couldn't hide it from his own people. Why would he even hide it from his own people and make a big deal out of Robin if he has the better people already?

    Dragon only went on a solo mission because of his son, who they shouldn't know about. That sounds like the thing in the Vivre card that Oda is talking about, that he left a son behind. (Dunno if this was before Marineford when it was revealed. Either way it has probably something to do with the 1 thing that Dragon has been hiding from his people. His past and in particular his family)

    I guess I have said my piece, if you want to comment on that, I will read it and consider your take. You have good ideas so I am fully open to listening to them.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  10. Su Long Bepo

    Su Long Bepo

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    How is it non sequitur when I said "what if"? I stated it as a possibility, not as a fact.


    A lot of things I wanna say here. The only time we saw him pre-revolutionary army (please correct me if I'm mistaken) is chapter 0 at Roger's execution, at which he is alone. We have no reason to believe he had subordinates before then. (Of course, I guess it's still possible)

    As for traveling alone, I disagree. For one, we already know Dragon has done it before. He traveled from where the ship was docked (outside of Zoro's village) to the Goa Kingdom and brought Sabo back. I'm not gonna get into why I believe he has a wind paramecia, since I'm sure you've heard plenty about that.

    As for operating a ship with a single person, I get what you mean. The only person we have seen operate a ship on their own was Eneru, and even then it was only because his ship was specifically powered on his devil fruit.....but then again what if Dragon used his wind powers to sail a ship? Is that really outside of the realm of possibility?
    --- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2019, Original Post Date: May 6, 2019 ---
    This is another one of the things I was prepared to add to my post. Akainu and the rest of the ships from the Buster Call were clearly shown to be at the Northwest shore. Aokiji was at the Northeast shore when he let Robin escape. In terms of observation haki, not Akainu nor any of the other vice admirals were able to sense them, so how could they sense, perhaps, something that was happening on the completely unoccupied south shore of the island?

    (If you want panels of where all this information is stated about the shores, just let me know and I'll dm them.)
    --- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2019 ---
    To be completely fair, he was taking in people from all sorts of places. Grey Terminal, for example, was a lawless area full of pirates and crooks. Despite that, he indiscriminately recruited anyone that wanted to join. Imagine if someone like Caribou was there. If you give that information out carelessly, it will eventually get leaked, which puts them all at danger once again. I feel like hiding it would be in the best interests of the scholars and the revolutionary army as a whole.

    As for why they have been searching for Robin, I feel like it's only natural that Olvia would want to reunite with her daughter.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2019 ---
    @Donal D. Trump @Coquet One thing I forgot to ask, that I'm actually very curious about:

    You both said you were intrigued until I brought up Dragon. Do you agree that Saul (and possibly some of the scholars) is alive then? And if so, where do you think they are?
     
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  11. Donal D. Trump

    Donal D. Trump

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    You raised some good questions and established precedent about Aokiji's ice and in particular the name "ice capsule", which implied it melts after a certain amount of time and the heat would speed up the process. I have no idea how he could left the island without Akainu getting him, so the possibility falls flat after some scrutiny.

    Though I was hoping that you give a compatible possibility how they could have escaped but you picked the 1 guy that 99.99% isn't the one. I am not interested right now(sometimes I am lol) in the tit for tat. Its pretty clear cut that Dragon believes that Robin is the last survivor and had no chance to retrieve them. Picking out quotes that Dragon has a "mystery" from his crew when he tells them nothing about him isn't swaying but show that the case is pretty much dead in the water(yes, pun intended).
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  12. Su Long Bepo

    Su Long Bepo

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    Again, I don't agree with this. While it may be a reasonable conclusion, we didn't see any interactions between Robin and Dragon, therefore we don't know what Dragon believes. If what I said about his "secret" was theoretically true (which is possible), then it would make sense why that revolutionary soldier said what he said. And as I explained before, I genuinely do think it would be in the best interest of the scholars if their identities were hidden if they were part of the Revolutionaries.

    Anyways, I really do appreciate your feedback. Let me know if you find anything else that adds to this discussion, I'm always wanting to discuss!
     
  13. Donal D. Trump

    Donal D. Trump

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    You are sorta using the absence of evidence as evidence of absence. That is why I called it a non-sequitur because it doesn't matter either way. Stating that Dragon has a "mystery" doesn't sway it to either site. Circumstancial evidence can be helpful if you have already established a real pattern of behavior but from what was illustrated and directly stated the complete opposite conclusion is on the table, without any real alternative I might add.

    You see the government not caring about the corpses and conclude that they are missing instead that they actually found them. Of course, Ohara wouldn't jump on the books that they tried to preserve when they had no chance of survival anyways. The Marines would wait until the fire ends to to kill any survivor, which we even saw happening. We saw the confirmation that the WG believed Ohara to be gone and how they wondered about the books in the lake. Maybe they asked even the same question "why didn't they save themselves but the books?".

    This makes it even more tragic and impactful. They became what they studied, which is a "lost history" and knew it going down. What would be my real issue is that the alternative you are presenting is a worse story, that is why I know Oda would never go for it. I think you would agree so yourself, I know it can be hard to detach yourself from your own ideas but would it really be a better story if Ohara would live? It doesn't serve the plot in a positive way, there is no need for Ohara to be back in the plot except to take the tragedy away from Robin's life, which would diminish the Ennies Lobby arc(you can disagree but it is simply the case when the stakes get lowered that the stakes get lowered. Before its "do/die, the WG ended my people and they can't continue that way" and now its "they are safe but I am going to do it anyways because of the principle")
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  14. Captain_BreLion

    Captain_BreLion

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    Don’t forget Mihawk sails alone all the time!
     
  15. Su Long Bepo

    Su Long Bepo

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    True, but the ship would have to be big enough to squeeze in ~20+ people. Regardless tho, his wind powers are enough to create a strong tailwind, so that should be more than enough.
     
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  16. Captain_BreLion

    Captain_BreLion

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    Yeah I think he’s an awakened wind logia actually (different theory on its own) but yeah even with a bigger boat, he’d be fine no matter what since he can manipulate the weather. Hell, Nami should be able to do the same thing (smaller scale) with her staff and with Zeus!
     
  17. Su Long Bepo

    Su Long Bepo

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    Maybe, depends on how much wind she can generate. Anyways, I think Dragon's fruit is gonna be a wind paramecia fruit.
     
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  18. Captain_BreLion

    Captain_BreLion

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    I say wind logia cause in episode 52 or 53 I forgot but both are Manga Canon, when Dragon appeared, he was appearing and reappearing. And used wind blow or something like that
     
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