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Of Gods and Myths - Joy Boy, the Ancient Kingdom, and Hinduism in One Piece

Discussion in 'The Theory Archive' started by Big One, Oct 17, 2015.

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  1. Big One

    Big One

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    If you haven't read my previous thread, I suggest you do cause this thread is a straight follow up to it and a continuation of the theme of exploring religious themes in One Piece. Here's the link.

    Little is known about both Joy Boy and the Ancient Kingdom in the series, and like the pre-history of One Piece I discussed in the Creation theory, I think one viable way to look at Joy Boy is to delve into real world hints by observing mythology and real life history as well. Bear with me here cause while it's easy to point out Biblical allusions in a Western culture, in this I will be taking a trip to the East, in the world's oldest religion: Hinduism
    _______________

    King Jayabaya, Vishnu, and Joy Boy

    As many of your guys already know from other theories, Joy Boy is most likely based on King Jayabaya (or Joyoboyo). King Jayabaya was a king of an ancient kingdom in India nearly 900 years ago. Jayabaya was very famous for his prophecies. Not only did he prophesied the fall of his kingdom by the hands of white men, but he prophesied the saving by short yellow men. Both happened as well long after Jayabaya's death despite the implications of them happening in his lifetime, but still it established him as a legend in India of sorts. It's also a common belief that Jayabaya was an incarnation of the Hindu god Vishnu.

    [​IMG]

    Vishnu is one of the head gods of the Hindu trinity known as the Trimurti. There's Brahma, the god of creation; Vishnu, the god of preservation; and there's Shiva, the god of destruction. I'll get to the others later in another theory, but for now let's focus on my main man Vishnu for this theory. It can be said that if Joy Boy is truly based on King Jayabaya, that he may have elements of Vishnu as well. Let's look into it...

    So Vishnu is the god of preservation. Think of him as the universal maintainer. While Brahma creates, and Shiva destroys, Vishnu makes sure everything is stable for the most part. Vishnu is also known as being a protector as well. He also has a bird mount called Garuda. Also, one of his defining qualities outside of his four arms is the color of his skin, which is blue. In Hindu culture, blue is associated with things such as the sea, the sky, and the infinity of space itself. If something is blue, it must be pretty badass basically.

    [​IMG]

    In comparison, what we know about Joy Boy is very little. The only thing we know about Joy Boy is that he's a man from the Void Century that wrote an apology letter on a poneglyph to the current Mermaid Princess at the time for not fulfilling his promise. However for some reason the fishmen are keeping Noah in safety in preparation for the "Promised Day" when a certain man arrives. As you all know from reading the Fishman Island arc, this is heavily implied to be Luffy. But how in the world would Joy Boy know about Luffy's doings in the future? Prophecy.

    As if it wasn't more obvious, Joy Boy had a "gift" of some sorts. A gift of prophecy, just like his real life counterpart Jayabaya. However like Jayabaya, Joy Boy wasn't exactly perfect. He was able to tell the future, but he wasn't able to tell of WHEN in the future it was going to happen. This caused Joyboy to foolishly have hope for a better world in his lifetime perhaps.

    [​IMG]
    As shown in the same arc, the gift of Prophecy isn't exactly something that doesn't exist in One Piece. In fact, Madam Shirley predicted herself the destruction of Fishman Island by Luffy's hands. She as well doesn't know WHEN this will happen. In fact she thought it was going to happen when Noah was about to crash into Fishman Island, which didn't happen. The implications is that she shares the same prophecy gift as Joy Boy, but I'm sure you guys are all aware of this already as countless theories have discussed this in length already.

    Joy Boy has the gift of prophecy, and he was likely to be the king of the Ancient Kingdom. He prophesied the destruction of Fishman Island, and promised the fishman he would build them the arc Noah to save their lives. He wasn't able to fulfill his promise however, as he wasn't able to fight off the forces of the 20 Kingdoms. Despite this, the fishman still believe in his prophecy, and a "Promised Day" will come when Noah finally is used for it's intended purpose.

    However how does this related to Vishnu? Well aside from Jayabaya being an incarnation of Vishnu, as I said Vishnu is commonly thought of as the preserver and the protector. I think it's very possible Joy Boy took upon this role. Not only did Joy Boy prophesied future events and was the king of the Ancient Kingdom, but...

    Joy Boy wrote all the poneglyphs.

    [​IMG]

    Remember Doctor Clover said that the thing people should be focusing on isn't the existence of the poneglyphs, but WHY the exist? What exactly is the purpose of scattering information on this huge indestructible cubes?

    Joy Boy predicted the downfall of the Ancient Kingdom.

    Long before it ever truly happened, Joy Boy prophesied the downfall of his own kingdom. In fear of the enemy, Joy Boy wrote poneglyphs worldwide to send messages across the Blue Sea to all his allies, revealing details such as the locations of the Ancient Weapons, and the history of the Ancient Kingdom. Cause he knew that it was inevitable: The Ancient Kingdom was going to be "erased" from history.
    _______________

    The Story of Noah

    [​IMG]

    If you read my previous thread, you know there are a ton of Biblical references in One Piece and it's very possible that parts of it are retelling the story of Genesis itself. Originally in my thread I wanted to cover this, however there's a bigger theory at play here that needed expanded upon involving both Joy Boy and Noah, so I delayed it for this very thread for that reason. Also since the thread focused on the Creation story, to place Noah there wouldn't really connect much to the other references.

    To those unfamiliar, the story of Noah is about a man who is given the divine word from God himself to build an ark, as he plans to destroy the world of sinners by water (next time by fire). However Noah as well must grab 2 of every animal species out there onto his ark to save them and his family.

    Like I said in the above previous section, Joy Boy had the gift of prophecy. Not only did he predict the fall of the Ancient Kingdom, but the fall of Fishman Island as well. Simply put, not only was Noah built for the fishmen, but it was built for his family. The D. Family.

    [​IMG]

    The Ancient Kingdom is flourishing, but to most of the world they are nothing but a bunch of sinners and evildoers. The Celestial Dragons, the "Gods" who live under the light of Eve casted their judgment on the Ancient Kingdom, and in secret was planning for it's obliteration. However the Ancient Kingdom had something that the Celestial Dragons didn't have. While the Celestial Dragons were using the powers of the Devil Fruits to gain advantage in the world, the Ancient Kingdom had another power: Haki. Joy Boy himself was a great haki user, with haki so strong he was able to predict the future with it.

    Noah's purpose was to save both the D. Family and the fishmen. Why would Noah be used to save his family, however? Because the Celestial Dragons plan for erasing the Ancient Kingdom from existence involves the plan to sink the Ancient Kingdom to the bottom of the sea, similar to the kingdom of Atlantis.

    [​IMG]

    One of the biggest hints for this is the fact that Jinbe discovered a poneglyph on the bottom of the sea. That isn't to say it could directly be a part of the Ancient Kingdom, but rather the fact that a poneglyph is even on the bottom of the sea suggests that there used to be human civilization down there of some sort. This gives the implication that islands in One Piece CAN sink under the sea. But how did the Celestial Dragons do this? They used the ancient weapon, Pluton.

    Pluton was a weapon that was built at Water 7, a place right next to one of the World Government's biggest bases: Enies Lobby. We already have hints of Pluton's place in the history of the world by the fact that it's very blueprints do not contain ancient text. It's written in English, which suggests it's likely more associated with the World Government. Pluton was used to destroy the Ancient Kingdom. However if that's the case, then why did the World Government lose Pluton? Because there was a traitor in their midst, and that was the Kingdom of Alabasta. The shiprights of Water 7 as well pitched in on this, hiding the very blueprints of Pluton itself.

    Alabasta "hid" Pluton. Where and how, we don't know for sure, but it's very clear the country has history with the weapon considering they hold a poneglyph that reveals the location of it. Alabasta was secretly a friend to the Ancient Kingdom, and Joy Boy wrote a poneglyph foreseeing Alabasta's seizing and hide of Pluton, which details about it's location.
    _______________

    Identity of Joy Boy and the Power of Haki

    [​IMG]

    Let's run down this theory goes over so far about Joy Boy:
    • Is based off King Jayabaya, who is an incarnation of the Hindu god Vishnu.
    • He wrote all the poneglyphs.
    • Was gifted with the power of prophecy, and foresaw many events including the destruction of the Ancient Kingdom.
    • Is part of the D. Family
    • Is a master of haki, a power used to combat Devil Fruits
    • Built Noah to save both his family and the fishmen from the depths of the sea.
    So why do I believe Joy Boy to be some type of haki master? Who exactly is Joy Boy and why is he part of the D. Family? It's simple, because like King Jayabaya he himself is an incarnation of a god himself. To be specific, he's an incarnation of one of the gods of creation from my previous theory (which if you haven't read yet after reading this far, you really should).

    Joy Boy is an incarnation of one of the three gods of creation, "Vishnu."
    (I'd like to note "Vishnu" is in quotations cause I do not think the actual name is Vishnu, just he's only based on Vishnu partially).

    Let's look at Vishnu's 6 main "Divine Glories," courtesy of Wikipedia:
    Let's go over this:
    Jnana is the "Voice of All Things"
    Aishvarya, Tejas are both elements of "Conqueror's Haki"
    Shakti, Bala are both elements of "Willpower" which characters use throughout the series to get ahead
    Virya is becoming the "Freest man in the world" aka the "Pirate King"

    Joy Boy, like Jayabaya, was an incarnation and/or a descendant of one of the "Gods" of the Angel races spoken of in my Creation theory. He inherited his power and his will. So why is he part of the D. Family? It, as well, ties back to Vishnu and Hinduism.

    D. stands for "Deva" which is a term for "God" in Hinduism.

    This is why the Ancient Kingdom was demonized by the ancestors of the Celestial Dragons. It's because they believed in a different God (the true God), and it had nothing to do with them. To the Celestial Dragons, they ARE the true gods, and the "Family of Deva" was nothing more than the "Family of Devils."

    Like in real life history, Christians are historically oppressive towards other religions, believing all other deities are incarnations of the Devil himself. The irony however is that they themselves are using the real power of the Devil: The Devil Fruits, to enact their religious fanaticism. One thing Oda hasn't covered yet in One Piece is the theme of religious oppression, but there's already hints of this as far back as Shaboady. Here's a list of names from that arc:

    Saint Roswald
    Saint Charloss
    Saint Shalulia
    Saint Jalmack
    Saint Mjosgard


    All the Celestial Dragons believe themselves to be saints, and their ancestors are the true "Gods" of this world. This is why the D. Family is called the "Natural enemy of God," because to the Celestial Dragons they're nothing but "Devils."
    _______________

    Tell me what you guys think below. Feel free to pick apart and debate as I welcome it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2015
  2. Banditace1995

    Banditace1995

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    Just gonna say brilliant theory i can definitely see some of this coming to fruition.

    Just one question tho why does everyone say that the 20 kingdoms had the devil fruit abilities? was it said somewhere in the manga and i just missed it or is there another reason, because i don't think they would call there own abilities that of the devil.

    Also if the 20 kingdoms created pluton who created uranus and Poseidon?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2015
  3. Big One

    Big One

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    The first theory covered the Devil Fruit thing. This one is a sequel to that. So it's a theory inside a theory! Take that as you will.

    That's a good question. Personally I think the three Ancient Weapons represent the "Trinity" in my theories. Notice how the Hindu deities are themed after Creation, Maintenance, and Destruction? Poseidon is a weapon that maintains and controls the Sea King (Vishnu), Pluton is a warship that can destroy entire islands (Shiva), and Uranus being named after the god of Creation in Greco-Roman mythology prob involves creation of some sort (Brahma). The gods the weapons are named after apply as well, but they aren't any sort of trinity in their respective mythologies by any means. But a lot of that I want to cover in other theories, whereas this one covered primarily Joy Boy's potential role in the bigger story of One Piece.
     
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  4. Whitey Bay

    Whitey Bay

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    This Was Excellent.

    I would also presume that the Celestial Dragons names may actually be off real life counterparts, if at least, the more important ones we will meet later on. Maybe the Big shot CD's got the names of the disciples of Jesus or something. Hmm...
    Well , they are Brothers, so a trinity is kinda present.

    A thought passing by. Each one of the Ancient Weapons was created/owned by a Separate Faction each.
    1: Celestial Dragons + 20 Kingdoms: Created Pluton.
    2: Fishman Kingdom: Are Part of Neptune and therefore Own it as well.
    3: Ancient Kingdom: Created/Owned the Uranus.(Giggle)

    These were possibly the Biggest Kingdoms back in the Old Days and no one had balls to go up against and try to war with one of them due to their immense sizes. Possibly something happened to one of the 3 Big Powers, (Notice how this shares a "Name" with the Current time and its Counterpart: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Three_Great_Powers,) Which caused another Great Power to attack, creating chaos.

    Example: A disaster happened to the Fishman Kingdom which left them vulnerable to attack. The CD's took advantage of it and caused them pain. The Ancient Kingdom, being on a semi-friendly term with the Fishman Kingdom(Similar to how the Warlords and the World Government/Marines are on a friendly term,) decided to butt in which cause the Huge War and the Downfall of the Ancient Kingdom and the world.

    So, maybe the Army the "Yonko" (Kaido is gathering a smiles army. BB is gathering DF's for his Fleet(presumably.) Theories suggest that BM may also be doing this. Wheter Shanks is in the game, I couldn't say.) are gathering and the War Kaido is brewing up will be what cracks open one of the Three Powers in the current timeline and then cause the same thing that happened in the Past and Start A Chain reaction event that will cause the EOS War.

    (This Reply became so much bigger then what I had planned it to be.)
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2015, Original Post Date: Oct 17, 2015 ---
    These theories and replies are brought to you by the number "3"!
     
  5. Big One

    Big One

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    This is generally what I'm thinking. The Fishman Kingdom ruled the seas, the Ancient Kingdom ruled the land, and the Celestial Dragons ruled the skies. In reality however the Ancient Kingdom were the true inheritors of the sky, attaining the power of Uranus. This caused the Celestial Dragons to get PISSED, and a war broke out between the two. (Basically the CDs thought they eradicated "God" only for it to come back with the Ancient Kingdom and the D. Family)

    I mean the whole point of the existence of the Celestial Dragons is that they inherited something they didn't deserve.

    Either way there's definitely a theme of three in the series that I want to explore a bit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2015
  6. Uncle Vash

    Uncle Vash

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    Brilliant! This theory was undeniably PEERLESS!
     
  7. DuttyAsmodeus

    DuttyAsmodeus

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    Nice. I like how you link your theories to the various religious ideas. Cant wait for your next one.
     
  8. The Buddha

    The Buddha

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    a super theory and some of it may be true,but this is a very big theory indeed
     
  9. The Cat Burglar

    The Cat Burglar Wanted Big Mom Katakuri

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    Genius theory again ! As I expected from you after your first one.

    Really can't wait to see Joy Boy stuffs in the manga !
     
  10. Rikudo D. Sennin

    Rikudo D. Sennin

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    :yaaa:Yooo awesome Theory Mate ..
     
  11. Kurohige Teach

    Kurohige Teach

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    i find your theory very good. as Joyboy is most likely based on that king Joyoboyo, im sure Oda will make some Joyboy connected with Vishna somehow too.

    however, for the part i quoted here, im not sure if you know this but ill point it out still. the Celestial Dragons are the descendants of the kings from the 20 kingdoms that took down the Ancient Kingdom 900 years ago. after the end of Void Century/the fall of the Ancient Kingdom, the royal families from the 20 kingdoms that defeated the AK (except the Nefertari family from Alabasta, so that makes it 19 royal families actually), moved to Mariejois to live there. this basically means that CDs didnt exist at the time the AK existed, only after it was destroyed the CDs came to exist.

    next is the Noah, i dont agree that it is for the D people. the purpose of the Noah IMO, is to bring the merefolk under the sun to live with humans. the Ds dont really need such a thing, thats why i dont think its for the D people, but only for fishmen and merefolk.

    haki is as we know willpower. it is something every living being has. there cant be only one kingdom to posses it, simply because everyone can activate it.

    other than that good theory
     
  12. Sage

    Sage

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    Too long and less in actual content :) but nice try :)
     
  13. Big One

    Big One

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    I should've been more specific. When I'm talking about the Celestial Dragons, I'm referring to their ancestors, the kings. Yes I'm aware that the Celestial Dragons are the DESCENDANTS of the kings, but it's generally easier for me to refer to them as Celestial Dragons and so I did, lol.

    As for the haki thing, I'm not trying to suggest that haki wasn't unattainable by others. I'm suggesting the Ancient Kingdom were "haki masters" and perhaps were at a higher level than everyone else. It's commonly thought of in various conspiracy theories that the Kingdom of Atlantis had people in it that were of higher intelligence and awareness than our own, and the entire idea of a kingdom being "erased" from the Earth itself originated in the Atlantis myth. And you know as well as I do that Oda likes to make references to things like that especially with the bigger conspiracy of the World Government hiding the world's "true history" in the One Piece world. We already have a form of haki that's only in a select few people in Conqueror's Haki, which suggests the power is hereditary in some way or another.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
  14. Kurohige Teach

    Kurohige Teach

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    i was confused a bit there with the Celestial Dragons, thanks for clearing that up

    i see what you mean with the haki now too, but dont you think it would be too unbalanced to have all the haki masters on 1 side, and all the strong devil fruit users on the other. a more "mixed up" situation with both df an haki beasts on each side would be a better scenario imo.

    as i said above, good theory, but these are the small things that bugged me and i wanted to point them out. i can agree with most of this nonetheless
     
  15. Mat D Bizzo

    Mat D Bizzo

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    wow very interesting, well layered, to think Joy Boy is a god,..now thats something i never even had in mind
     
  16. Big One

    Big One

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    I don't think it's directly an incarnation, but perhaps the Inherited Will of God himself. Maybe that's what the "Will of D." truly is.

    Regardless if this theory rings true and there's tree godheads that formed the world, and Joy Boy is an incarnation of one of them, it makes me question exactly what the other two incarnated into if at all. That's something I want to explore in future theories as well: The imagery of the the number 3 in One Piece, and Blackbeard's possible place in the series.
     
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  17. Mat D Bizzo

    Mat D Bizzo

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    yeah something more along the lines of inherited will is O.P like,.....well the Will of D, i think it's something entirely different i have no thoughts on in anyway, i look forward to reading that theory be sure to tag me when you make it
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
  18. Putu

    Putu

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    Is a myth eh ?
     
  19. HinataSenpai

    HinataSenpai

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    Well I like your and the fact that i am a Christian means that I know some of the things you wrote in both of your theories.... About Arabasta, Luffy, zoro and Chopper fell inside a place where they found a poneglyph (which is a different place from the place we saw robin reading the poneglyph). What could this poneglyph say? Do you think that it reveals the location of Pluton or it is a part of the history Joyboy wrote? I have this question for sometime now... Can you please help me solve this mystery?
     
  20. Big Mamas Boi

    Big Mamas Boi

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    Phenomenal theory, I had hardly noticed the biblical parallels when it came to the skypians and Kumas bible and this theory with Joy Boy illuminates a lot of what is speculative about the void century. Ancient Christians wielded power similar to magicians, and only later reinterpretations and dogmas demonized more obvious acts of Gods abilities into being more subtle, and I believe the celestial dragons used the devil fruits UNTIL the ancient kingdom was destroyed and then banned their use and demonized them to monopolize their existence and use by the WG. GREAT THEORY AND I HOPE IT US PROPERLY EXPOUNDED IN THE SERIES :)
     
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