Discussion Neck Tattoo Speculation

Discussion in 'The Promised Neverland' started by LogicoftheVI, Jun 14, 2017.

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  1. LogicoftheVI

    LogicoftheVI

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    This theory/speculation is not my creation all rights go to a Reddit user by the name of Saraa7 who thought to put the numbers in reverse order. Credits also go to @Coton for bringing this to my attention! Thank you sir as I have tracked all numbers and relevant information since. Big thank you to @Raycont for assisting me with ideas, proofreading my post, and generally putting up with me.

    What we have learned
    Basically the first thing I noticed when I started reading this magna was the number Tattooed on Emma's neck. I wasn't sure what it meant but I was sure there was some relevance to it as well as it letting me know that there was more to this story than what it appeared to be.
    I remember that numbers on her neck stood out more than her ominous words about this place being an orphanage...or so she though.
    [​IMG]
    So the author had already grabbed my attention with this number and decides to make sure it's something we know is odd. But it's odd for us the readers since the way Emma explains it there are perfectly normal and everyone has one. This added emphasis stresses an importance that is deeper than telling us this isn't just an orphanage?
    [​IMG]
    By the end of chapter 1 we are introduced to the demons and we see a list of numbers accompanied by ages and test scores. If we didn't have an inclination about the number before it is revealed that the numbers essentially catalog each child and is used to track their test scores. (interesting note there is a 7 year old ??294)
    [​IMG]
    By this point we know it's bad news for the children but how serious is it? Is this situation? Chapter 3 ramps up the intrigue by revealing that Isabell also has a neck tattoo and is trying to survive just like the children. The interesting thing here that I didn't notice the first time is since she is looing in a mirror her numbers are reversed (more on this shortly.)
    [​IMG]
    In Ray's flashback we see the number on his bassinet is in the reverse order of the number tattooed on his neck. For me this confirmed by speculation that these numbers are tracking how many people have come out of the farm. As shown in the first of the pictures in the spoiler below Ray and the child next to him are in sequential order. Norman is #22194 so he's actually just a few beds over to the right. This would lead me to believe the numbers are just a serial number for cataloging who is who?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Over the coarse 30+ chapters we now have many different numbers for characters ranging from 2 to 31 years of age. I was already keeping track of the numbers and noticed Krone and Isabella had 84 for the last 2 numbers while the majority of the kids had 94 with our main trio having 194 to end their tattoos. As state above @Coton bought it to my attention there was a theory on Reddit about the numbers being in reverse. So we decided to try it and I created the table you see below. From this we can see that the numbers are in ascending order the younger the person gets. This brings us to the table and what we know as of right now.

    Character NameNeck Tattoo NumberNumber in ReverseAge of Character
    Leslie7158448517Unnkown
    Isabella735844853731
    Krone186844868126
    Ray811944911811
    Norman221944912211
    Emma631944913611
    Gilda651944915610
    Don161944916110
    Anne4819449184Unknown
    Nat3029449203Unknown
    ???????294492??7
    Coney84294492486
    Thoma55294492556
    Phil3439449343Unknown
    Sherri7439449347Unknown
    Carol53494494352

    What does this data tell us?
    So either the Grace Field House started at some pretty high numbers or this has been going on for quite some time.

    Based on the difference in numbers from Isabella to Carol (898 numbers between Isabella and Carol) in only 29 years, if these numbers are consistent we can speculate how long this has been going on if the Grace Field House is the only facility.
    How many years at 900 people every 30 years would it take to get to 49435? 49435/900=54*30=1645. Now based on what our kids know about 2015-2045 this would seem to be impossible, but it if we go a step further then this could actually seems to support Coton's The Truth theory?
    That or the evolution of the Earth Theory (soon to come).

    If we're not believing that this has been going on for over 1600 years then based on the fact that the Demons procure food, clothing, and other goods from outside this facility leads me to believe that this isn't the only such facility. That would explain why the numbers are so high since it's been like this for 30 years according to the characters rather than . As a matter of fact the poultry numbers coming out of The Grace Field House Orphanage almost guarantee it in my opinion.

    Since Leslie's number comes before Isabella's we can infer that he is older than her as well based on what we know.
    We have one number that is completely unknown but the age of the child is 7.
    ??294 This could be Nat I would need to look over what we know of his character before I say with certainty.

    Birth rates at the Grace Field House seem to remain consistent over a 30 year time period:
    898 numbers between Isabella and Carol. 29 years age difference
    317 numbers between Ray and Carol. 9 or 10 years age difference
    581 numbers between Isabella and Ray. 20 years age difference

    I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed putting it together.
    Please share your thoughts, tell me if there is anything I have missed and I will update accordingly as new information presents itself to us.

     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  2. Shu

    Shu

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    thanks for the details keep it up mate
     
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  3. Char Aznable

    Char Aznable

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    thanks for this @LogicoftheVI though i have a serious catch up for this so some spoilers for me :p
     
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  4. Ryuudo

    Ryuudo

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    Honestly I already thought of putting the numbers to reverse order, but it didn't really make sense even then. All you can tell from looking at the numbers is that they're probably just identification tags, but then it really doesn't make much sense probability-wise that there have been over forty-nine thousand kids before Emma, Norman and Ray. Like you said, that would either mean thousands of years of plantation activity, or the existence of hundreds of separate plantation complexes like the one that contained Emma and Ray's plantation.

    What doesn't make sense is how these demons managed a perfect start with manufactured clothes, equipment, houses, *everything*, from Day One of the first plantation ever created (since it doesn't make sense that they were all built simultaneously), but then this would imply that the number of plantations has grown at an incredibly fast rate ever since Day One. So the demons, before even creating the first plantation, had it all planned out - which I suppose could be true, since we know next to nothing about this planet they're on. Is it even Earth? At this point I'm beginning to faintly doubt that.

    Not only that, but this speculation raises even more questions than it answers. If the demons were ready and prepared for the creation of the child plantations, they must've had some kind of experience in doing things like this given the ease at which they began doing it. Which, naturally, means that the demons have built such plantations before (perhaps on other planets), or that the demons control the entire planet (or a large enough portion of it) and are able to command its resources to at least the extent of a large and wealthy nation. We still cannot rule out the possibility of independent human life, perhaps even an entire country, existing outside of the demons' sphere of influence. It does, however, imply that even if such life does exist, it is not powerful enough to seriously damage or challenge the demons' realm, given that it would be impossible to conceal such a massive-scale war.

    Now, let's get on to what we do know about the demons and the numbers: almost nothing. The demons apparently find human children very appetizing, and also in the latest chapter, we hear one demon referring to another species as an "inferior race". Perhaps just like among humans, there are race supremacists among the demons, and this was just one of them. Or, more likely, all of the demons consider themselves to be some kind of an evolutionary pinnacle, unsurpassed by any other race. (Which Emma, Ray & Norman have already proven to be halfway wrong of course.) As for the numbers... how significant will they really prove to be in the future? I've laid out my thoughts on how significant I think they're likely to be in the paragraphs above, based on what we know right now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
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  5. Oshino-san

    Oshino-san

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    Absolutely amazing job on this @LogicoftheVI and everyone else who contributed to it. I loved reading every bit of it. Great job :D
    I'll post more thoughts on it a bit later xD
     
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  6. Coton

    Coton

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    Great reading @LogicoftheVI. Luckily you're here to do such a colossal job. :D And yeah, the numbers in reverse order seem right. :yaaa:

    Almost 1650 years ! That's a huge number lol
    Considering that the plantations have existed for a very long time. What assumptions can be made of William Minerva and his books ?

    The demons were definitely ready. The structure of the plantation, the cliff, the trees, etc... It's too much to be a simple coincidence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
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  7. DuttyAsmodeus

    DuttyAsmodeus

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    Nice find!

    The numbers could possibly include the Plantation ID. Up to now we have only seen numbers from kids in the same plantation.

    I cant remember if Krone and Isabella were from the same plantation.
     
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  8. LogicoftheVI

    LogicoftheVI

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    Thank you I am glad you liked it.
    I like the idea of the numbers not only being serial/identification numbers but also Plantation ID number. What reinforces this for me is the fact that in chapter 38 one of the Demons said to "let the surrounding areas know what was going on as well". This tells me that it's possible if someone happened upon this "product" they would know where it belongs?
    Yes I do believe that Krone and Isabella are both from this Facility.
     
  9. Raiden

    Raiden

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    Oh my god, so this is the theory you guys talked about in the actual thread. Everything makes perfect sense and now I know why you mentioned that 50K back then.

    1600 years?? That would be one hell of a plot twist. If thats true, then the demons and humans from outside are damn good at deceiving the children by sending them technology (Ray's bonus toys and stuff) from around early 21st century. And also the books that stopped at 2015 I think? And if som many years have passed... shouldnt that Minerva guy be dead already? Maybe his organization is still standing.. sorry if you mentioned that above, might've missed it.

    Great read again; thanks for the tag!
     
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  10. Ryuudo

    Ryuudo

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    Good that you pointed this out. It actually pretty much debunks the option that plantations have been going on for thousands of years - Minerva can't be the only one to have gotten out in that time. There would be more such stories. Which is more or less confirmation that there are hundreds of such plantation complexes all around the world... and that the demons control the world.

    Yep, it is. Don't you think it is a bit overkill to have those huge walls AND a huge moot to protect against just a couple of kids? From this, we can deduct that kids have escaped before, forcing the demons to continue raising their security measures until they're almost ridiculously airtight. This deduction is further supported by the fact of the demons' response time to escaped kids. They have clearly dealt with situations like these before.
     
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  11. Raycont

    Raycont

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    While I agree with the idea of multiple farms and Demons ruling the world, I don't see how this debunks it.

    Why would there be more stories?
    There isn't even a story about Minerva escaping. That is just a theory.
    There are only children in the orphanages and Mamas.

    Who's gonna tell these stories to who?
     
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  12. LogicoftheVI

    LogicoftheVI

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    I definitely thunk their are multiple facilities/plantations.
    Maybe the last number is what identifies the product to a certain plantation?
    We know that Isabella farm produces the best quality goods is that information related to the plantation or Isabella respectively? If we knew that it might be telling?

    Anyone have a guess who the unnamed 7 year old is?
     
  13. Ryuudo

    Ryuudo

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    1600 years, one plantation. Just in terms of probability - what are the chances that Emma and Ray + the kids are the only people to ever have escaped? If they are not the only people ever to have escaped, they would naturally have created societies elsewhere, with the aim of either simple survival or, like Emma and Ray, rescuing more children from the plantations. Which means that for only Minerva's stories to be within the plantations is very, very unlikely. On the other hand if there are hundreds of such facilities, it would make sense that there would be several different Minerva-esque stories dotted around them, perhaps with different names but the same themes and so on. It would also make sense why there is only one such story or mythos in the Grace Field House.
     
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  14. Raycont

    Raycont

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    Why though?
    Why would there be more stories in one single orphanage?
    Why are they not in one of the other 4 orphanages we know of?
    Why would there be more stories in the Gracefield House?
    Why increase the risk of being found out by sending more of the same stories with weird stamps into the house?

    Just because more people escaped it doesn't mean that there have to be more stories in this exact orphanage.

    Like I said I agree that there have to be more orphanages, that was my thought all along just because it would make more sense but I don't think the amount of stories in the Gracefield House is evidence of that.
     
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