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Law's still Luffy's Competition for One Piece

Law might be Luffy's ally/friend like Coby, but they're still enemies nonetheless.

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  1. Hannibal Psyche

    Hannibal Psyche

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    One Piece leads to the Will of D.

    There's no reason for Law to tag along with the SHs, he's the captain of a crew, not a fanboy.
     
  2. Kuroh

    Kuroh

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    Yeah but I don't think that every single D has the Will of D...
     
  3. Hannibal Psyche

    Hannibal Psyche

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    Doesn't mean they won't look for One Piece or try to be Pirate King, even people without it are aiming for it. Kaido and Bigmam aren't D's, and both are looking for Ds and to be Pirate King.
     
  4. Kuroh

    Kuroh

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    Yeah I know that. Law can still look for One Piece. But Law was there when they found the Road Poneglyph, Law may still be there if they find other clues. My point was that Law will understand that it requires the right person to find/use One Piece and he will realize that he is not the right one but Luffy is. But that is only the assumption.
     
  5. Hannibal Psyche

    Hannibal Psyche

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    Why is Law not the right person, how did you come to that conclusion?
     
  6. Kuroh

    Kuroh

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    Law cannot hear the voices of all things, he does not have the Roger's will in him but Luffy does. I was under impression that you have to have certain qualities within you to be able to find/use One Piece. That would explain why Yonko's and other pirates were not able to find/use it.
    Before Whitebeard died he told Blackbeard that "It's not you...
    The man Roger was waiting for at the very least is not you, Teach.
    Just as there are those who carry on Roger's will, i'm sure someone will appear to carry on Ace's will, someday.
    Even if you extinguish his bloodline, there's no way that their flame will ever burn out.
    It has been passed down since ancient times... and in the future someone will appear, carrying the history of all those decades on his back, and challenge this whole world to a fight."

    That is what made me think that way.
     
  7. Hannibal Psyche

    Hannibal Psyche

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    How do you know? When Momonosuke heard the voice, Law was shown and he wasn't anywhere close to Momonosuke, so how do you know he hasn't got the ability too? Luffy wasn't shown in this chapter or panel, so does that mean Law heard and Luffy didn't? No, it just didn't show Luffy, he may also have heard it.
    [​IMG]

    Law wasn't shown here, but Luffy and Momonosuke were, does that mean Law didn't hear it? No, we didn't see him, so we can't say he heard nothing. We also lose view of Law, he's no longer around them, so we don't know for certain if he never heard it.
    [​IMG]
    Also, this is only pertaining to hearing the Voice of the Elephant, not to hearing what the Ponegylph says.

    Luffy and Momonosuke haven't shown the ability to understand the Poneglyph, so whose to say that they need to be able to understand them? and we still don't know if Law can certainly not hear this voice too.

    Also, even if they do not have the ability to understand Poneglyph, all they need is Robin.

    Whose to say Law wouldn't kidnap Robin to translate the Poneglyph for him? The Yonko will soon start aiming to capture Robin.

    Even Kaido and Bigmam have Poneglyph, but they don't understand it either, nothing stops them from still aiming to possess One Piece.

    Nothing suggests an inability stops one from aiming for One Piece.

    Blackbeard may have been told he wasn't the one either, but he's still going after it. It doesn't stop him whether he's the one or not, so why should it stop Law?
     
  8. Kuroh

    Kuroh

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    Valid points!
    I know that the ability is to her voices of all things but I think that Poneglyphs are special, or they haven't tried to 'speak'. We know/assume that Momo and Luffy cannot hear them. I say assume because Poneglyphs haven't tried to 'speak', I mean to be able to hear a voice, that object has to speak. Nothing told us that Roger could hear the Poneglyphs. In fact he had Lord Oden with him who could read them.
    I think that every D has an important role in the history of the world. For example, Saul saved Nico Robin; Portgas D Rouge protected Ace and etc. I think that Law will also have an important role, maybe killing Kaido or smth (we don't know for sure).
    Good point about Law stealing Robin! It is highly possible, and I cannot deny that.
    As you said, nothing stops anyone from aiming to One Piece! But for some reason neither Rayleigh nor Shanks did anything with One Piece. Not sure if Shanks saw it but Rayleigh did. Roger's crew is the only one that knows anything about it. So they know more about locating One Piece and obtaining it than anyone else (well, maybe except for the World Government). It seems like they all are waiting for the right person, and it seems like they chose Luffy. That is why I think that there should be another condition other than hearing voices of all things and reading Poneglyphs to be able to find/obtain One Piece. We do not know for sure if Law has all the fitting qualities for that. He may. What I was trying to say is that probably Law will not want to look for it or have it anymore after meeting Luffy!
    But these are all only assumptions on my part. I do not have a solid explanation for any of these.
     
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  9. Roronoa D. Teach

    Roronoa D. Teach

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    I hope law betrays luffy. When I first saw law on sabaody i tought he was going to be the smartest the cruelest supernova. Remember when he asked X Drake how many people he had kill. It made me beleive law was ruthless. so far, he's been a big let down. He got recked by doflamingo and didn't do s**** in dressrosa except defeating trebol. I hope he's going to show the NW how terrifying he really is.
     
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  10. Hannibal Psyche

    Hannibal Psyche

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    Fair enough! We'll just have to see how things progress from here on out, haha.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2016 ---

    Revision

    Done some revision on Law's agenda from Marineford till now, and while I agree with everything I've written in the original post, I have revised my views, and reviewed his comments and actions that led up to the conclusion.


    Firstly...

    Couple thing that needs pointing out is, people who have gone for One Piece have always gone after Emperors:
    • Crocodile went after Whitebeard.
      [​IMG]
    • Moriah went after Kaido.
      [​IMG]
    Therefore, Law who going after a Yonko is consistent with actions anyone who wants One Piece takes.

    Law's Ambition

    Destroying the world was his goal before his days were numbered, and before Rocinante gifted him with prolonged life as well as transforming him from monster to Human. After Rocinante's death, the goal to destroy the world was diffused.

    The only thing is, rather than destroy the world, he aimed to find One Piece which requires taking down a Yonko (being Kaido); of course this also includes the benefits of Joker getting killed by bearing the brunt of Kaido's anger; this is killing 2 birds with 1 stone so to speak.

    It wouldn't really be any different from Luffy taking a detour to save Ace (essentially postponing meeting with the crew) or obtain Ace's Mera Mera no Mi, we still wouldn't say because of this sentimental detour and digression from objective, he's quit going after One Piece or meeting with his crew, no? Law's take down of Joker isn't any different.


    Law ended the alliance once (essentially betrayed the SHs)

    Initially, when Law fought Joker over the bridge, he ended the alliance because he was simply using the SHs from the beginning, and he was ready to forfeit his life in the event he failed to get revenge; at this point in time, his objectives went out the window and his grudge/emotion took precedence over everything else.
    [​IMG]

    After this fight, Law actually tells us why he became too pre-occupied with Joker (which Sanji pointed out): he got provoked, and this is why Law is warning Luffy to resist provocation if taking down Joker is to succeed; he makes reference to this by saying "If you don't keep your cool, your life will be forfeit just like me when I faced him before!". Bare in mind, in the lead up to this scene, it's actually not Law's idea to engage with Joker, but Luffy's.
    [​IMG]

    Prior to the scene above where Law and Luffy are getting ready to engage Joker, and not long after Law was utterly beat down by Joker on the bridge/Green bit, Law has come back to his "senses" (well, he's become the pragmatist again and putting his emotions to the side).

    He actually reminds Luffy who just promised to defeat Joker, that staying on course with the plan is best, somewhat hypocritical since he actually just tried to kill Joker, but we know he was provoked into doing so due to Joker's aptness at playing mind-games; so we see that Law actually was for sticking with the plan.
    [​IMG]

    Luffy ironically, is now the one who is bent on taking down Joker, Law was essentially convinced by Luffy who absolutely insisted on taking down Joker.
    [​IMG]

    It is after this scene that Law and Luffy decide to take down Joker as opposed to it being Kaido's doing, and devised the "Red Hawk" and "Gamma Knife" plan to kill Joker.
    [​IMG]

    TL;DR: Ultimately, this proves that Law never abandoned the plan because Joker was his ONLY goal as most seem to believe, he simply got provoked into engaging Joker which Sanji wasn't aware of.

    And there's only 1 reason why Law has faith in Luffy
    • The hints are here, he states that he's saving Luffy despite being an enemy because they have a "bond". What is this bond?
      [​IMG]
    • Also, when Rayleigh appears on Sabaody, he says the '"D" will always bring forth a storm'. Digressing a bit, but I believe this is a hint that Rayleigh is a "D", but the bond he's clearly talking about is the fact that he and Luffy are both from the "D" clan.
      [​IMG]
    • And when Joker asks, why he trusts the SHs so much? It's not that he trusts them per se, it's because of the "D" initial.
      [​IMG]
    Law clearly has some belief and faith in "D" initial and is hinting at this being part reason he saved Luffy despite considering him a future enemy.

    Luffy at PH was coincidence

    I think its easy to assume that Law was waiting for Luffy, but we know how Luffy got to PH, it was simply coincidence:

    • Luffy saw the Island that was most intriguing as it wasn't even recognized by the Log Pose, it's not like this meeting was planned to begin with.
      [​IMG]
    • Law also says, this meeting was luck, not planned.
      [​IMG]
    • Law without knowing of Luffy, was already proceeding with the necessary steps required to take down a Yonko, not something he conjured the moment Luffy appeared. This tells us he's really been planning extensively, and the very fact that he allied with Luffy whom he wasn't expecting was pure coincidence. It means he'd have allied with any formidable crew; alliances are mostly formed out of convenience.
      [​IMG]
    • Robin has also pointed out that such alliances usually end with betrayal.
      [​IMG]
    Law and Luffy may get on well, but that's just not reason for them to become Nakama. There are people whom Luffy respects such as Smoker and Coby, but anyone in his way is an enemy. We just can't forget that Law is a Captain with his own crew, and one of the 3 main Supernova at that. It would be rather anticlimactic for one such as Law to simply become another fan.

    The only reason Law ever diverged from the plan was not because he was lying to Luffy about awnting to take down Kaido, but simply because he got provoked.

    With that said, he's clearly a contender for One Piece and is likely to either split watys with Luffy or betray Luffy; ultimately, Law is still an enemy of Luffy, just like Coby and Smoker are.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
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  11. Kuroh

    Kuroh

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    I love this! You did an amazing job researching all of this! I don't think that Law will become a nakama tho. But as Mihawk said Luffy has a weird ability to turn everyone into his friends. With that in mind, I really want to believe that Law will stay friendly with Straw Hats. But Law can totally kidnap Robin and betray Luffy, well because he is a pirate and your research proves that it is highly possible but I don't want that to happen. We will probably find out about Law's actions in 2-3 years, after Whole Cake Island and Kaido arcs will be done! Sad day...
     
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  12. Hannibal Psyche

    Hannibal Psyche

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    Thanks, :)

    Law is a likeable character, so it's hard to imagine that he and Luffy would ever be in a dispute. We'll learn more for sure, looking forward to how this arc transpires.
     
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  13. Holy Earlobes of GOD!!

    Holy Earlobes of GOD!!

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    Old post but it gives me an excuse to talk about something that interests me.

    Law's plans are interesting in a lot of ways. There are telling signs that he thought he was going to die, trying to take down Doffy. As long as he was successful, he'd be fine with that. He wasn't however, fine with bringing his crew down with him.

    So, he sent them to zou, in preparation for his "grand Kaido killing scheme" while he went off to die alone on a journey of personal vengeance.

    [​IMG]
    The scheme was a rouse but (in my opinion) only partially. It represented his ambition, what he actually wanted but refused to pursue before doing what he needed to do.

    It was wishful thinking. He didn't see himself surviving after sabotaging Doffy's business but if he did, he could set his sights on his actual dream.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
  14. Hannibal Psyche

    Hannibal Psyche

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    [​IMG]

    Actually, that's not entirely accurate.

    When Law fought Joker initially, we see Sanji say he's not sticking with the plan.

    [​IMG]

    And then we see Law say to Luffy that Joker is great at Provocation, and if he doesn't keep his temper under control, he'd be throwing away his life just like when he faced him before.

    1. Question is where did he face him and when was he provoked, that he nearly lost his life? It was the same time where he decided to take on Joker where we had Sanji telling him he's focusing too much on Joker.
    So, we know for a fact that Law never actually forfeited the plan to take down Kaidou by means of destroying the factory, he just got provoked and lost sight of the goal.

    [​IMG]
    After Luffy saves Law's life, Luffy is the one WHO actually suggests to defeat Joker, and Law says we should stick with the plan which gets us back to the question, then why did Law just attempt to kill Joker alone?

    1. It's because he got provoked. So, we see he was always intending to carry out the plan, but it's because his emotions got in the way that he made the mistake of fighting Joker.
    He intended and was expecting to meet with his crew, this wasn't a kamikaze attack. If anything, the reason he had his crew mates in Zou was his way of resolving that he'd return to his crew mates, or else, he'd have been lying to them as they'd be expecting him.

    There's nothing complex about Law's plan, it's simply a matter of Joker getting the better of him. It's no different to the situation where Luffy was faced between fighting Blackbeard, or ignoring him to save Ace, had Luffy been carried away by his emotions, he might have done what Law did, and lost sight of the objective which is, save Ace.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
  15. Holy Earlobes of GOD!!

    Holy Earlobes of GOD!!

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    I wrote a lengthy response that got deleted after the site went down. Annoying to say the least but I'm here.:banghead:

    There is one aspect of this you don't seem to be taking into account. Law never intended to meet the straw hats. That means his plan initially started out as a solo mission.

    It's obvious that he altered his plans after they became involved. The plan as we saw it would require Law to be in at least two places at one time (which he obviously can't do).

    After the Straw hats joined him he changed his own way of thinking but Law taking on the entire donquioxte family by himself can be seen as nothing but a suicide mission.

    [​IMG]

    He even acknowledges this himself. He never expected to live through Dressrosa. He didn't even think about how he would contact his crew later because he didn't think there would be a later.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
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  16. Hannibal Psyche

    Hannibal Psyche

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    I explicitly mentioned this meeting as pure coincidence in my post.

    Can speculate a lot on here despite how true it is, but he clearly wasn't attempting to simply throw his life away. Even from PH, the plan required more than 1 individual seemingly:
    • After destroying SAD, how would he have sailed away without a Ship and kidnapped Caesar? he had no Ship as far as we see.
    We'll just have to assume he already had this planned and was probably even more long-term until the SHs arrived, and more so since he tried to bargain with Caesar to keep his presence a secret.

    This can be easily explained.

    His lack of expectation to get to Zou is after he got to Dressrosa and realized the situation at hand had turned into something he never calculated. For one, Law was also expecting that due to Joker'a abdication from the throne, the City would be in chaos giving him opportunity to find the SMILE Factory, destroy it and leave.

    Bare in mind at this point, Joker would be just another Pirate and the Marines would also be there (he more or less had the Marines dispatched by proxy of Smoker) gunning for his head, and not just any convoy , but one carrying an Admiral with 2 Vice-Admirals.
    [​IMG]

    To further support that his expectations weren't met, Sanji points out that the Kingdom was rather Peaceful despite losing its King. So, even at this points, there are tell-tale signs that things are spiralling out of control.
    [​IMG]

    We can even tell from the way he's speaking here, he was very much expecting smooth sails to a degree, Joker was pretty in a checkmate being that he was now a mere Pirate, but it's clear as the above shows, he's walking into a trap.
    [​IMG]

    The panel you provide says he forgot he had a Vivre-card and wasn't expecting to get to Zou; here, he is well aware he possesses one and ACTUALLY tells us he's heading for Zou. It's pretty clear he thought this plan was going as planned, so there's no reason why he shouldn't be expecting to arrive at Zou.
    [​IMG]

    When they finally reach Dressrosa, he even gives Nami a Vivre-card (or, tears one off rather) and reminds us that he mentioned Zou, where his crew would be. His crew also drew him a map of Dressrosa, so it looks very much like everything was planned; the only problem is, things took a turn for the worse.
    [​IMG]

    So, to conclude, when Law said he forgot he had a Vivre-card and didn't expect to see his crew again, you took it out of context evidently because we see he was well aware he had a Vivre-card and was intending to go to Zou. What he was essentially saying was, because of how things progressively got worse during the Dressrosa arc, he didn't expect to regroup with his crew.

    And finally, like has been said before, he intends on finding One Piece which means he's very likely to betray or split ways from the SHs as soon as their goals are met. He even reiterates that this is just an alliance, that his crew don't need to be pals, they just need to play their roles and get this plan concluded with.

    [​IMG]
    --- Double Post Merged, May 9, 2016, Original Post Date: May 3, 2016 ---
    OP updated.
     
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  17. Mr. Tiddles

    Mr. Tiddles

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    Wow!! I'm really captivated with the amount of analysis you put there, really great stuff!! :yaaa: And I even realized stuff I never realized before. :D That's really impressive. :p

    I agree that it's really plausible that Law may betray the straw hats or split ways with them later on; though if he makes them his enemy, I get the feeling his crew wouldn't want that. :( They seem pretty friendly with the straw hats after all, especially to Luffy whom they saved 2 years ago in the Marineford arc. :)
     
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  18. Big World

    Big World

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    really really nice thoughts :)
    I also believe that law has something big on his mind.
    He's ''using'' luffy
    he did destroying doffy (of course he was so weak to do that alone, while all the time was saying to luffy don't interfere <crafty>)
    and now he want to destroy a yonko.

    Hope zoro realize it before it's gonna be too late
     
  19. Vagabond

    Vagabond

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    I've stated this point MULTIPLE times, but people believe that Law would want to be Luffys bff more than find the one piece.
     
  20. nacrose

    nacrose

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    Anybody who is a pirate is drooling for one piece.....
    Even if law's life goal was to take down doffy, now doffy is outta way he is wanting some of one piece....
    The only exceptions being WB, SHANKS n BUGGY( probably)
     
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