Discussion Is Heki to blame for the loss of half their food supply?

Discussion in 'Kingdom' started by BossYimz, Mar 14, 2018.

Tags:

Share This Page

?

Is Heki to blame for the loss of half the food supply?

  1. Yes

    14 vote(s)
    43.8%
  2. No

    15 vote(s)
    46.9%
  3. Maybe

    3 vote(s)
    9.4%
  1. BossYimz

    BossYimz

    Messages:
    5,930
    Likes Received:
    27,545
    Trophy Points:
    25,290
    Bounty Points:
    1,000
    There is a difference between responsibility, accountability and blame.
    1. Is Heki responsible for protecting the food? Yes he is. Ousen placed him in charge of ensuring that food gets to YTW and his men.
    2. Is Heki accountable for the actions he takes when protecting the food? Yes he is. Ousen left his in charge of the food thus he will have to answer to Ousen about what steps he took/didn't take when protecting the food
    3. Is Heki to blame for the loss of food? No he is not. Heki took all the steps necessary to protect the food. He followed the protocol thus he can't be blamed for it
    The only time Heki can be blamed is if he didn't follow the protocol needed to secure the food. Like if he did have a defence formation in place to protect the food.
     
    LogicoftheVI, TheoryKing and Zephyr like this.
  2. alwaysrollinup

    alwaysrollinup

    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    814
    Trophy Points:
    6,710
    Bounty Points:
    3,150
    All I'm going to say is if the hi shin unit was the ones to back up yotanwa this would not have happened and if by some chance it did kyou kai would have ended the war in the next day
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  3. TheoryKing

    TheoryKing

    Messages:
    9,205
    Likes Received:
    18,362
    Trophy Points:
    26,910
    Bounty Points:
    3
    Replace them with:

    - elite infantry, thats the best out of any infantry in qin outside of the great generals of qin.

    - elite cavalry, def. one of the top 10 cavalries in qin

    - best strategist of the rising generation

    - the top 2 combatants of Qins rising generation

    .... man of course HSU would produce better results. Thats a loaded ass army loll
     
  4. Kizaru D. Drake

    Kizaru D. Drake

    Messages:
    2,244
    Likes Received:
    4,541
    Trophy Points:
    14,960
    Bounty Points:
    4,390
    Whose this best strategist of the young generation you speak of? Mou Ten isn’t a part of HSU and has constantly shown to be the best strategist of the young generation. Ten at this moment is at best 3rd just behind Ou Hon though she may pass him eventually.
     
    SMILE and Gotta catch'em all like this.
  5. alwaysrollinup

    alwaysrollinup

    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    814
    Trophy Points:
    6,710
    Bounty Points:
    3,150
    So because the Hsu is beast that's makes heki less of a failure NO HEKI IS ASS because of the ppl you have to compare him too
    I don't let heki pass cus he's normal he has had the money political backing formal training and it's still trash even when compared to regualr soldiers in the hi Shin unit like sosui garo suugen shousa denyuu en san who originally was a message for heki and has become a true warrior with shin
    Futei and kane would beat heki in a fight rihaku is normal he just has good tactics he beats heki kinmou and gakuei both beat heki maron radio and kokuyou beat heki

    Heki being normal is due to his own lack of will and resolve he has had all the advantages like money political status formal training weapon handling and tactics but yet he's still the worst of the worst when it comes to generals or commanders in general
     
  6. LogicoftheVI

    LogicoftheVI

    Messages:
    4,459
    Likes Received:
    21,570
    Trophy Points:
    21,390
    Bounty Points:
    2,700
    @BossYimz and @TheoryKing you guys have some very thoughtful and well written posts.
    BossYimz thank you for starting this thread, it's a great read.
     
    BossYimz likes this.
  7. shade0180

    shade0180

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Trophy Points:
    9,370
    Bounty Points:
    2,550
    you don't get excuses like this in the real world.

    an example If you are told to hold 50,000 dollar.

    and you lost half of it, it doesn't matter what precaution you used to hold on to it. as long as you lost half of it the blame is always going to be yours.

    same shit with Heki here, it doesn't matter if he didn't know that there's an underground tunnel, it doesn't matter if there's a meteor that had fallen on it. He still lost half of the food stored so he is to be blamed for getting it lost.

    In the first place why is there no one checking the ground, how did the fire instantly burn the whole food supply, why couldn't they get the fire off before it spread to the whole room, why is his soldier too late on securing said food that is stored when they are suppose to watch and guard the food. Why couldn't they even take out a few crate or even bag of food and saving even a little of those food inside the supply room, when they literally are told to guard it.

    They shouldn't have lost all half of it if they are doing a great job guarding it.

    the fire could have been prevented.
    Some of the food could have been pulled out.
    the arsonist could have been caught

    seriously there's negligence in the defense and it is Heki that is to blame for it.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 22, 2018 ---
    This page isn't showing that Heki is not to blame, this panel is showing that Yotanwa is a good/great general and she has the proper mindset to lead this army even if they are in a tight situation.

    Even if I am the lead general in this situation I wouldn't push the blame on Heki, right at this moment. Maybe later after the war but right at this moment I'll say the same shit to Heki because I don't want 1 of my general or even 1 of my troops down casted before we even start a war against another army that has superior number against us.
     
    Xlaw likes this.
  8. Xlaw

    Xlaw

    Messages:
    9,426
    Likes Received:
    46,470
    Trophy Points:
    27,790
    Bounty Points:
    12,570
    Isn't that basic to check geographical location , nearest area , possible Bobby traps , hidden roads ,possible hidden places (to launch small attack) first...Before storing your supply...

    Look at Yontawa ..The moment she learnt about attack on supply store she speculate , enemy using hidden tunnels ! Means ig she was in charge of protecting supply store then she might have ensured above threats..
    From the very beginning Heki is an unworthy general who can't predict opponents movements..
    You can't defend him for him being so dumb and average...Actually I would blame Yontawa for trusting such important task on such below average general (not like she had many options) he failed on both fronts
     
  9. shade0180

    shade0180

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Trophy Points:
    9,370
    Bounty Points:
    2,550
    The thing is No one in yotanwa's army could have done heki's job considering everyone of them are mountain tribe who specialize in mountain warfare, Heki specialize in this field and he has experience with this.

    Heki is the only choice considering he is a general that has experience countless wars since even before Ei Sei got the throne and he survived against stronger and better general than the one they are facing here. Also he should have expected the underground tunnels considering they are also using underground tunnels when they build this forces to march to the zhao kingdom.

    Basically this shouldn't have taken him by surprise if Hara is still inteding to write Heki properly, this is within the scope of his ability.

    he also knows that the underground tunnels can literally have large troops in it considering he was part of the war when Sei's brother fought and utilize the secret tunnels under the cities and castle of Qin they literally could march an army in it. So Zhao having the same tunnel should be something he should have known.


    basically I'm blaming Heki's incompetence and Hara's bad writing for this event.

    Mind you I'm not saying Hara is a bad writer just that this part of the scenario is not properly done if you look at the larger picture.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    BossYimz and Xlaw like this.
  10. Xlaw

    Xlaw

    Messages:
    9,426
    Likes Received:
    46,470
    Trophy Points:
    27,790
    Bounty Points:
    12,570
    If his opponent was Kanki , then he might have burned the entire forest with their food supply..

    The best place to store their food supply was underground bunkers , or the area with rocks, or near river bank to avoid fire attacks..
     
  11. shade0180

    shade0180

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Trophy Points:
    9,370
    Bounty Points:
    2,550
    yea that too, they'd basically kill half of the army with that plan too.
     
  12. TheoryKing

    TheoryKing

    Messages:
    9,205
    Likes Received:
    18,362
    Trophy Points:
    26,910
    Bounty Points:
    3
    In real life you would not get blamed unless you're the one at fault aka you made a strategical mistake...Heki didn't make a strategical mistake, somebody simply thought of a better strategy. There are people who blame others despite the situation being out of their hands, while they in the same situation would've been equally incapable of doing such a job.

    Hence the reason Yotanwa being as wise as she is, didn't berate heki, because not only did he get outplayed, but Yotanwa herself got outplayed by Ssj.

    Having tunnels in a city =/= having tunnels in middle of the mountains far away from the city.


    Where underground would they hide them? Haven't seen it in the entire manga..when were they gonna dig a massive hole? In how much time would the hole be dug in?

    Near riverbank is easy to spot and easy to access for the enemy, which is why you wouldnt do it there, plus where was the location of the river there?

    Where was the area with rocks where the army was camped near the battlefield?
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 22, 2018 ---
    Uhh you stated replace Heki with the HSU and this wouldn't happen.. i simply pointed out how weird and bad that idea is to downplay heki. Because HSU is loaded unlike any other unit in the Qin Army. Replace the HSU with any unit under a general and you'd get better results.. so by that logic all those generals are incapable and not worthy.

    Enlighten me on what Denyuu, sosui, gaaro, suugen have over Heki as generals.

    Rihaku was a renowned experienced general. Idk why you'd compare him to Heki is just working his way up the ladder.



    Its hekis fault that he wasn't blessed with monstrous strength since birth? Really?

    Heki is worst of the worst when it comes to generals in kingdom? Yea... you're wayyy reaching with that bruv.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    Kizaru D. Drake and BossYimz like this.
  13. BossYimz

    BossYimz

    Messages:
    5,930
    Likes Received:
    27,545
    Trophy Points:
    25,290
    Bounty Points:
    1,000
    It makes no sense to blame Heki considering no one even YTW and her army knew about the tunnels. They are hidden tunnels for a reason. If they were obvious that they were there, there would be no point in calling them hidden.

    Heki performed the protocol needed to protect the food. Blaming Heki for doing his job perfectly makes no sense. The enemy just knew of something that no one else knew off.

    Heki would be to blame if he didn't do what is necessary to protect the food
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 22, 2018 ---
    thanks
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2018 ---
    So let me get this straight.
    You are given the 50000 dollars to hold.
    You take all the necessary precautions to protect the money.
    You store it in your bank account. The bank you store it in has all the security protocols in place etc.

    Afterwards, you get a call that the bank got robbed and the money got stolen. When you ask how, you get told that the robber had inside knowledge of the location of the bank, emergency entrances, where the security guards are etc.

    The owner of the 50000 dollars come back and asks you where the money is and you say it was stolen.

    How exactly is it your fault when you did everything in your power to ensure the money was stored in a safe location?
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2018 ---
    The HSU have lost a couple of times to superior strategy. So it is not like they are immune to opponents that have superior strategy.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2018 ---
    So YTW says that it is not Heki's fault that he didn't know about the secret tunnels. She also confirms in that statement that her army also didn't know about those tunnels.
    Heki arrived as reinforcements to the YTW so YTW's army should have had plenty of time to scout out the area but failed to find the tunnels.
    YTW as the commander in chief of her battlefield, chose the area to set up camp. Her army failed to find the tunnels in the area she decided to set up camp. However, it is Heki's fault that he failed to find hidden tunnels when even his commanding officer failed to do it?
     
    Kizaru D. Drake and LogicoftheVI like this.
  14. shade0180

    shade0180

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Trophy Points:
    9,370
    Bounty Points:
    2,550
    you get the blame from the owner and you pass the blame to the bank which is a standard procedure in the real world where you can get it to court and get back the money from the bank..

    So yes the blame goes to the bank who is protecting your money.

    :saikensmirk: seriously this shit is standard procedure.

    Heki doesn't have a bank to blame so he himself is alone to be blamed on this failure.

    Your bank won't be excuse from this like oh we have all the protection in place, but we still got robbed it isn't our fault so you can't blame us about this money you lose.

    lol no..:LUL: stop living in your fictional world where the blame doesn't happen.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 22, 2018 ---
    No this isn't about the secret tunnel.

    This shit is about Heki failing to protect the food supply the army needed.

    The secret tunnel is the tool you don't blame the thief from using a tool.

    you blame the protector from not anticipating that there might be a hole in their system and left no contigency for it.

    Again like the bank example they wouldn't say the thief has this secret tool we don't know of so we don't get the blame from anything you lost.

    lmao:ZULUL: If the real world works like that then we wouldn't have any need for lawyers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  15. BossYimz

    BossYimz

    Messages:
    5,930
    Likes Received:
    27,545
    Trophy Points:
    25,290
    Bounty Points:
    1,000
    I agree with you.
    These guys are literally blaming Heki for not being as talented as the likes of SSJ, Shin etc.
    In life there will always be someone who is better than you at something. Ouki/Renpa aluded to this by saying that the people at the top will get defeated by new people that rise up.

    Heki did everything in his power to ensure that the food was safe. unfortunately, SSj new something Heki didn't. People ignore the fact that Heki lost half the food and not all of it cause he anticipated the possibility that he might loss the food thus split it to minimise the losses.

    This is like blaming a student who studied everything the teacher taught in class then fails the exam cause the teacher had some questions that the teacher didn't teach in the class. The student did everything in their power to study for it however, how would they have know to study for things that were not taught by the teacher in class. Make no sense.
     
  16. shade0180

    shade0180

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Trophy Points:
    9,370
    Bounty Points:
    2,550
    Lol no this isn't about talent.

    :lmao: this shit is basically Heki failing to do what he should have already known.

    Qin has their own mountain ranges that have secret tunnel, fuck their tunnels extend from the emperor's castle to Zhao's land..

    that's multiple mountains across. and he didn't think a mountain so close to the capital of Zhao has no secret tunnel..

    :vonFlame: this shit isn't talent this shit is common sense.

    As for yotanwa and her troop as I said they are new to this shit so them not knowing this, is normal this guys lived on a mountain on their whole life, they aren't as sophisticated as the empire systems of tunnels and other shit that is regularly used in wars...

    Heki was warring inside secret tunnels since before Ei Sei was even an emperor.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  17. BossYimz

    BossYimz

    Messages:
    5,930
    Likes Received:
    27,545
    Trophy Points:
    25,290
    Bounty Points:
    1,000
    This is false.

    So what happens when a earthquake happens and the bank where the money was store gets destroyed.
    Will the owner of the money get their money back by suing? No they will not get anything cause that was a natural disaster that was beyond the power of the bank to control.
     
    TheoryKing likes this.
  18. shade0180

    shade0180

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Trophy Points:
    9,370
    Bounty Points:
    2,550
    Student and grown up are treated differently.

    :lmao: There's a reason we don't call students, Grown men/women and there's a reason Grown adults had more right than the children because of different levels of responsibility.


    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 22, 2018 ---
    they still need to pay for the people who lost their money.

    :lmao:Actually they actually can sue the bank. and it actually happened remember the fucking storm during Obama's presidency.


    the bank won't sue anyone because they are the one who failed, they can get a good lawyer to lessen the thing they need to pay but the people can sue the bank for failing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  19. BossYimz

    BossYimz

    Messages:
    5,930
    Likes Received:
    27,545
    Trophy Points:
    25,290
    Bounty Points:
    1,000
    In university if the teacher does this and the students fail, the teacher will be the one at fault and the higher ups like the dean etc, will tell the teacher to sort that error out.
    You can't set exams on things that are not in the syllabus and then go and blame the students for failing the test.
    Since when do banks pay people who lost their money to a natural disaster?
     
    LogicoftheVI and TheoryKing like this.
  20. shade0180

    shade0180

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Trophy Points:
    9,370
    Bounty Points:
    2,550
    Grown men has different responsibility as the students.

    :lmao: you don't get it.

    Obviously if shit is not the subject you can't blame it to student are you dumb.

    but we are talking about the protection of food supply here, and Heki failing to protect the food supply on something isn't a natural disaster is not the point. so you can drop the natural disaster part.

    but good job on moving the stupid goal post. It really points on how desperate you are to save heki's ass on this.

    :lmao:

    See here as I said Heki's job is to protect the food supply. we all know this shit.

    He failed to do it. because he couldn't protect it.

    And the cause of the failure is someone sneaked on him and burn it to the ground.

    It doesn't matter what tool was used, what shortcut was done, or how he got in there.

    What matters is Heki's contigency plan is lacking and that's the failure on his part.

    Again as I pointed out the bank can't blame a thief for stealing their shit because they don't know they have some secret shit they don't know.

    This is the closest analogy you could get and it is their fault for failing to prevent the disappearance of the item they are guarding.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice