Discussion Hi Shin Unit the strongest Unit out of the Youth

Discussion in 'Kingdom' started by TheoryKing, Jun 27, 2016.

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  1. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    True that. HSU will definitely have a role. I think he will use them the way his grafather used Ousen and kanki.
     
  2. Braavos

    Braavos

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    Shin actually manage to slay Reiou and Keisha because he follow his instinct.
    The latest known for Rikusen stats, he have str 84, he is not stroger than Garo or Naki.
     
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  3. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    I didn't know stats for Riku sen were already out. When were they made?
    I just checked and saw his strength. I can't find Naki's stats
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  4. Braavos

    Braavos

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    In Kingdom Guidebook2, but that stats were presented after Kokuyou Arc. Naki's stats not out yet, I just assume he is a monster based on his line to Raido's men.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  5. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    If that is the case then Garo is a beast. I never thought he would be that high at this point in time. I actually didn't know that there was a HSU member other than Shin, Kyou kai and Ten who had the stats provided.
    I wonder what Garo's strength level will be EoS. I always see him as the leader of Shin's bodyguard squad

    When it comes to Naki it is easy to overlook him coz of his looks. If Garo is that his then I can see Naki easily being in the 80s as well.
    I wonder what the strength level of the Ryuu sen and Den ryu are.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  6. Pika

    Pika

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    And they will lose to Shin and Kyou Kai.
    Yes , he is the best strategist in the new gen but you don't think Ri Boku is better ? I bet you do and if Ri Boku said " "Claiming the heads of Shin and Kyou Kai will require twice that number of soldiers" how can Mou Ten do better than Ri Boku ? You need to outnumber Shin and Kyou Kai to defeat them if you can't take them in 1 vs 1 and Mou Ten's unit can't outnumber them or defeat them in 1 vs 1.
    Also think Mou Ten can just outsmart them but Shin and Kyou Kai are unpredictable. Remember Duke with Ri Boku , Shin with Keisha.
    Shin , Kyou Kai and Na Ki all three over 90 str + Bow brothers.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 17, 2017 ---
    Na Ki said that he is stronger than Rai Do (90 str) so he is atleast 91.
     
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  7. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    Snap Naki over 90 that just adds a whole other dynamic to this argument. Your points are interesting and warrant extra thought. I will concede on this one coz I hadn't thought of the Riboku argument. Having 3 people with over 90 strength is just too much. Now that I think about it, Shin squad has archers whereas Mouten said his army is mainly composed of calvary. I overlook the importance of the archery division. So when it comes to range HSU have the advantage. Mobility obviously goes to Mouten. However HSu is mainly made up of infantry, Normally calvary is the death of infantry but with archer there, the calvary is limited. The archer can wilt down the calvary as they charge towards the HSU.
    HSU also have a calvary division so that further limits the advantage that the Mouten calvary has over HSu. Iirc, Kyou kai once made a shieldwall. So she can always do it again with the infantry which will further nullify the advantage of the calvary.

    Ok with all this fact considered, I now believe HSU wins.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  8. y-fo

    y-fo

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    Love your ability to concede to new arguments @BossYimz, and that was a line of argument I hadn't thought of either with the riboku statement so big ups @Pika

    So anyone have the stats for Garo as I'm hearing he's supposed to be a beast or something?
     
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  9. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    Thanks.

    • Garo's strength stat is on 86
    • Based on this stat he is smarter than Shin (Shin's intelligence is 74), this surprised abit coz he doesn't seem t. To put Garo's strength into perspective, Mouten is on 89 while Shin is on 91. So Garo is quite up there.
    • Garo's is on 84 intelligence which is also quite high. Mouten is on 91.
    • Garo's leadership is on 74 while Shin's is on 83, so he isn't that far from Shin in this department as well.

    http://kingdom.wikia.com/wiki/Ga_Ro
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 17, 2017 ---
    It also seems like Kisui, Batei and Ruuto's stats are out.
    Kisui strength is at 86( Garo is aslo is at 86), leadership and intelligence are on 90
    Batei strength is at 90, leadership is at 85 and intelligence is at 80
    Ryuuto strength is at 84, leadership is at 88 and intelligence is at 92
     
  10. Sundown

    Sundown

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    Mou Ten is formally educated in warfare, creative and confident. That makes him a threat to just about anyone, including the HSU.

    However, the HSU is uniquely fortunate in a way that it has several people capable of strategy and off the cuff tactics. Ka Ryou Ten is the main strategist of course, and she has exceptional potential, but then there is Kyou Kai who is both a talented strategist and tactician, and the ultimate Joker card of all Shin.

    While it is something of a staple amongst shounen series that the protagonist's unique talent is that they are out of the norm and therefore difficult to predict, e.g. Naruto, but few series take advantage of that, or really elaborate, or demonstrate that ability.

    That is not the case with Shin, who we know has exceptional instincts and can be a creative force on the battlefield, and a devastating agent of momentum, whether it's breaking it or creating it, and I don't think anyone in the series can really strategise for that. It's like trying to grasp wind. It's simply not possibly to predict the unpredictable, and that's what makes Shin a universal threat.

    Now, combine that with the fact the HSU is fiercely loyal to their commander, capable of breaking up in smaller units and working perfectly in tune with another, and is home to many powerful individuals and leaders - I don't think they can be beaten without superior numbers at this point. Substantial superior numbers to be precise.

    I think Mou Ten would give them some trouble, but he would have his hands full with any one of the leaders in the HSU. He'd be overwhelmed if the unit moved as one. He'd simply get overrun and destroyed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
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  11. Boy D. Raphael

    Boy D. Raphael

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    The thing is better distribution of job was a good deal in hi shin. It must be hard for not to cling to only one person because of command chain, but i would say it is better than only depending on a single person capable doing strategical and brawn like in gyoku hou.

    The best advantage in hi shin unit is ridiculously high moral. With this, even at desperate situation could claimed keisha. Keep in mind, even riboku had his nerve stinging when overheard shin charged militia with high moral during the first day of siege on sai.

    As the story goes, shin's instinct and feeling grew sharper than before. Just like the archer brother said, he is as straight as an arrow.

    IMO this unit will become something like renpa's four heavenly kings. Shin as the head of the army, ten as the strategy, sosui will serve as cavalry commander, lt. En/suugen/someone will take command of infantry, and kyoukai should assumed a special division.

    Nonetheless, this unit will no longer a unit when shin become a great or mere general, they will become an army, capable on leading a campaign.
     
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  12. y-fo

    y-fo

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    Thanks, didn't expect that much detail but nevertheless welcome!

    Batei is surprising as I thought he'd be higher up, anyways that's a discussion for another thread but Garo is an interesting guy so I guess imma keep out for him
     
  13. KING EXPLOSION MURDER

    KING EXPLOSION MURDER Big Mom Cracker Katakuri Smoothie

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    In terms of power : Shin -> Ouhon -> Mouten

    In terms of speed : Ouhon -> Shin=Mouten

    In terms of inteligence : Mouten -> Ouhon -> Shin
     
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  14. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    I agree with this other than the speed stat. I believe Mouten should be faster than Shin. Against fodder Shin usually seems fast, however, when he fights against people on his lvl or stronger people he always seems slow. He relies more on his strength than his speed.
    Another thing to consider is that Shin is currently using Ouki's glaive which is heavy. This makes him slower that he was before plus he has not yet accustomed to it completely. I believe Kyou kai pointed this fact out.

    So for Speed, I would say it is Ouhon -> Mouten-> Shin
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  15. KING EXPLOSION MURDER

    KING EXPLOSION MURDER Big Mom Cracker Katakuri Smoothie

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    Shin is fast with a sword tho. And he managed to blitz a few strong ones
     
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  16. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    It is true he is fast with a sword but he doesn't use it much these days. Plus, am a bit rusty, I cant remember him blitzing anyone who is stronger than/equal to Mouten
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  17. Pika

    Pika

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    Speed - Ou Hon > Shin > Mou Ten.

    No reason to believe Mou Ten > Shin (Speed) especially when Shin spar with arguably the fastest person in the series all the time(Kyou Kai)
    Ou Hon will be always be the fastest because he is a spear fighter so that's his thing speed.
    Mou Ten - The smartest , good fighter.
    Ou Hon - Super smart , amazing fighter.
    Shin - Not that smart but the best fighter.

    Ou Hon is the most balanced and that's why he is better than Shin and Mou Ten.
     
  18. y-fo

    y-fo

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    is shin really stronger than ouhon? Seems like ouhon edges him out in stats and feats but shin's alpha is the wild card
     
  19. Pika

    Pika

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    Imo Shin is stronger than him but they use the Earl(Spear dude) fight to say Ou Hon > Shin.
    That's wrong imo Ou Hon fought that dude 2 times and the first time he almost died , Shin fought Gai Mou who was stronger than Earl and he was fine after the fight not like Ou Hon.
     
  20. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    With Ouki's glaive, Shin is handicapped. He still cant use it properly. It is heavy and makes him slower. Plus glaives in general are slower than swords. Mouten uses a sword.
    If we are considering Shin when he uses a sword then I can give him the benefit of doubt. However, with the glaive that he has trouble using, I will give Mouten the benefit of doubt that he is faster with his sword when compared to a glaive wielding Shin
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2017 ---
    Was Gai mou taking the fight seriously? I can't remember.
    Earl was trying to kill Ou hon Iirc.
    At the moment, Ou hon edges Shin on technique and speed.
    Another thing to consider is that Ouhon has always won when Shin and him fought each other.
    So the benefit of doubt goes to Ou hon winning the fight. Plus Shin hasn't mastered how to use Ouki's glaive. Ou hon's lvl of mastery of his spear eclipses Shin's lvl of mastery of using the glaive.


    If you take the stats, their previous fights against each other, their speed, skill level etc, then Ou hon should win the fight. Imo, when Shin masters the Ouki glaive, he will be better but untill then, Ou hon is stronger
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
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