Discussion HI SHIN UNIT (SHIN PERSONAL ARMY)

Discussion in 'Kingdom' started by El-pachinko, Feb 11, 2015.

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  1. Zephyr

    Zephyr

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    Having high stat doesn't mean you are automatically general level.

    You need to lead people into battle & gain achievements. There is an order to that. Naki can have higher stat than all of the generals in Qin but if he is incapable of leading thousands of men then he will never become a General.
     
  2. Guan_Yu

    Guan_Yu

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    I think Shin's Army in the future is going to be the combination of Ouki's and Renpa's army.

    The structure :

    Tou : Kyoukai
    Genbou. : Ten
    Kaishibou. : New vassals
    Rinko. : Naki
    Kyouen. : Jin / Tan
    Rokuomi. : Suugen*
    Ryuukoku. : Sosui*
    Kanou. : Gakurai*
    Rinbou. : Denyuu*
    Doukin. : Ryuusen*


    * if Shin got new vassals, then probably it will be the new member.
     
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  3. Zephyr

    Zephyr

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    At this point Hara should develop the veteran commanders & make them General instead of introducing new characters.

    After this Zhao campaign Shin will be promoted to General. Hara should also promote the commanders under him. Make 1K commander 2K commander, 300 man commander 1K commander, 100 man commander 300 man commander etc.

    The one thing Ouki's commanders had was experience. Except for Rokuomi & Ryoukaku others were not really a big deal. Shin's commanders can gradually gain experience & climb up the rank.By the time Shin becomes a Great General he can have 3 generals (except KyouKai & Ten) & 7 or so 3K/4K/5K commanders. And when he becomes a member of Qin6 then he can have 5 Generals (except KyouKai & Ten) & five 5K man commanders.
     
  4. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    I agree with this.

    I think Shin won't get any new commanders after this. Hara should start developing the ones that are there. Shin already has more commanders than all other new gen. If he can't make use of them, what is the point of getting more.

    If I were to guess, the first generals will be:
    • Denyuu
    • Suugen
    • Naki if he is in Shin's unit and not Kyou kai's. If he is in Kyoukai's unit then he will be a general under Kyou kai.
    • If Naki is in Kyou kai's unit, then it will be Gakurai instead of him
    Hara should also clarify which unit of the HSU Naki is in. It is not clear whether he is in Shin's unit or Kyou kai's unit.
    In chapter 546 after Kyou kai requested for her core units, we saw Naki receiving orders that he should go to the side Kyou kai was heading to i.e En's location.
    We also saw Garo saying that Kyou kai's unit is gathering up.
    Garo, Naki and Suugen
    were shown in that panel, however, Naki's unit is the only one that was shown receiving the order to go to En's unit.
    [​IMG]


    I think the ones in HSU that will now start getting commanders are Kyou kai and Ten if she gets an army of her own. We need to see more of Kyou kai's unit. We barely know anything about her unit which makes no sense if you consider the amount of screen time she gets.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  5. Guan_Yu

    Guan_Yu

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    Naki is directly under Shin. Kyoukai didn't need to get her units to be shown completely, since after all her unit were also Shin's units basically. So i believe that if there are any new note worthy members, then it's gonna be directly under Shin.
     
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  6. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    HSU is made up of Shin's unit and Kyou kai's unit.

    I know Kyou kai's troops are under shin since she is under Shin. However, Shin's men and Kyou kai's men are different and everyone, from Shin to the newbies, in HSU knows that Shin's troops and Kyou kai's troops are separate entities.
    • Shin acknowledges that his troops are different from Kyou kai's troops. In chapter 550, Shin referred to Kyou kai's men as Kyou kai's men, and his men as his men. He didn't refer to all of HSU's troops (Kyou kai's troops included) as his men. He has the authority to command all of them, however, at the end of the day, 3000 of HSU are Kyou kai's men and he acknowledges that fact.
    [​IMG]
    • In chapter 546, Kyou kai acknowledges that her troops are different from Shin's. She requested for the men in her core units.
    [​IMG]
    • In chapter 546, Garo differentiated Kyou kai's men from Shin's men. He said, Kyou kai's men are gathering up.
    [​IMG]
    • In chapter 548, Shin's newbies were differentiated from Kyou kai's newbies. Kyou kai's newbies got a morale boost from her presence while Shin's newbies didn't. Shin's newbies were jealous that Kyou kai's newbies had Kyou kai with them while they didn't have Shin with them.
    [​IMG]

    Now that it has been established that everyone acknowledges that Shin and Kyou kai's troops are 2 separate entities:
    I want to know which branch of HSU Naki and his unit are in? Is he a 1000 man commander in Shin's unit like Denyuu and Gakurai or is he a 1000 man commander in Kyou kai's unit. (The panel I showed sort of hints he might be in Kyou Kai's unit, however, that is not definitive proof. There is no evidence that states with 100% certaintly whether Naki is in Shin's unit or in Kyou Kai's unit. All we can do is speculate at the moment)

    As for Kyou kai's unit. despite seeing her so many times, we don't know much about her unit. We don't know:
    1. Who were lieutenants are. She is a 3000 man commander and we don't know who were lieutenants are. We knew of Ou hon and Mouten's lieutenants/adjutant when they got introduced to us. If am not mistaken they were introduced as 300 man commanders. We already got introduced to Kanki's adjutant. We see these guys less than Kyou kai but we know their lieutenants/adjutants.
    2. We don't know what the rank of her top commanders is. Ou hon has Kanjo while Mouten has Rikusen. We know the rank of the top commander of the Ouhon unit, Mouten unit despite seeing them less than Kyou kai.
    Am not asking to see them all, but at least to get info on the lieutenants and top commanders of Kyou kai's unit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
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  7. Guan_Yu

    Guan_Yu

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    Well every units or army was made up by numerous units. It's not just Kyoukai, even Denyuu, Hairou, and the others officer's men were also referred to their respective unit (Denyuu's men, Hairou's unit, Ryuusen's men, etc).

    One of the reasons why they still seems to be differentiate was due to Shin's rank that still not sufficient to have that number of men under him. So it's look like HSU was a joint force. But i believe that once Shin reach the rank of General, they will truly become ones.
     
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  8. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    There is a difference between Kyou kai and the other units. Denyuu's men are Shin's men. Hairo's men are Shin's men. kyou kai's men are not Shin's men.
    HSU is literally made up of 2 units: 5000 man commander Shin's unit and 3000 man commander Kyou kai's unit.
    [​IMG]


    The people in HSU are either in Shin's 5000 man unit or in Kyou kai's 3000 man unit.
    Denyuu, Gakurai are 1000 man commander inside Shin's 5000 man unit
    The same thing applies to Naki. He is either in Shin's 5000 man unit or Kyou kai's 3000 man unit.
    I want to know whether Naki is in Shin's 5000 man unit or Kyou kai's 3000 man unit.

     
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  9. TheoryKing

    TheoryKing

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    Kyoukai can't have a LT. as she not an independent unit. She her self is a LT. Even her own men refer to her as a LT. if I recall right in the Kanki war. (unless ya mean like a special secretary for herself.)

    Now tbh I don't think Naki's falls specifically into one of them, when Shin is referring to Kyoukai units' men.

    From the set up of the HSU, fairly certain the commanders can have men from Shin & Kyoukai's unit. Especially Suugen who leads the infantry for the entirety of HSU (including Kyoukai + Shin's specific units)
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
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  10. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    That makes no sense when you consider the fact that Ousen and Kanki had their own adjutants/ lieutenants and in the case of Ousen generals while he was under Mougu.
    If they can have that, then it makes no sense why Kyou kai who is ranked lower than them won't have a lieutenant/adjutant.
    Ousen and kanki were the vice in the Mougu army but they still had their own command structure in their individual armies.
    There is also the fact that, even though she is in HSU, she is an independent unit that chose to stay there. So she needs to have her own lieutenants as the higher ups make you chose them at 100 man commander rank. All independent units have adjutant/lieutenants.
    Kyou kai is a lieutenant in HSU, however, she is the captain of her 3000 man unit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
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  11. TheoryKing

    TheoryKing

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    They weren't LTs, they were Vice-Generals. So there's a huge difference between the 2.

    She had the ability to be an independent unit, but chose to instead be a dependent unit. She can't be considered an independent unit while under the HSU, which is Shin's unit. Hence why she doesn't need em, since the strategies are made for the overall HSU together not in separate units.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
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  12. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    Ok.
    What about Tou who was a general and lieutenant at the same time. He had a command structure in his amry and even had Setsu kou. The guy who looks like him.
    it would make no sense for Tou to be a general but have no command structure in his amry. Same with Kyou kai. She need a command structure i.e chain of command in her unit. it can't just be captain Kyou kai then soldiers. There are commander and there are also lieutenants.
    All independent units we have seen so far have lieutenants. Kyou kai is also an independent unit, she just choses to stick to Shin.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
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  13. TheoryKing

    TheoryKing

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    I don't recall Tou having a LT. while he himself was a LT. And if that Setsu kou guy was a secretary to his but that'd be no different than Gakurai - Garo connection, where Garo is essentially Gakurai's right hand man in that unit. But thats also what I meant by "unless ya mean a special secretary for herself", something I assume all unit commanders have.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  14. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    Kyou kai's unit is an independent unit that she decided to stick with Shin's unit.
    All independent units we have seen, have lieutenant/vice captain/adjutants.
    It would make no sense for there to be no vice captain/lieutenant/adjutant in her unit.
    Even Suugen has a vice. However, somehow Kyou kai wouldn't
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
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  15. Guan_Yu

    Guan_Yu

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    Like i said before, it's due to Shin's rank is not sufficient to lead 8000 men.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 7, 2018 ---
    Vice General / Deputy General is different from being a lieutenant.
     
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  16. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    That doesn't matter. The fact it right now, all troops of HSu are divided into 2 groups: Shin's 5000 men and Kyou kai's 3000 men.
    Naki is in one of those groups. He is either in Shin's 5000 men or Kyou kai's 3000 men.
     
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  17. TheoryKing

    TheoryKing

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    You're stating she's an independent unit right now, but she's not. She chose not to be independent, but instead be a dependent unit under somebody else. That separates her from the rest. She can't be considered an independent unit, until she separates again. Thus there's no need for her to have a structure for those 3000 men that mimicks the hsu. Especially since the HSU's structure overall is designed with including her men.


    I'm sure she has some sort of right hand men like Kou Hei or Son Jin. Since even Gakurai has somebody like Garo, and I'm sure even Sosui and etc have their "right hand men".

    I was just stating she won't have a lt. if we're referring to an official title within the hsu.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  18. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    Ok.
    Fine, explain to me then how Suugen an infantry commander has a vice (Shousa) however, Kyou kai, a 3000 man commander won't have a vice/lieutenant/adjutant
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 7, 2018 ---
    Ok, we can leave the semantics, they won't help us here.
    Explain to me how Suugen has a vice (Shousa) but Kyou kai a 3000 man commander doesn't have a vice/lietenant/adjutant.
     
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  19. TheoryKing

    TheoryKing

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    Suugen is the Infantry Commander for the entire HSU infantry (which includes Shin+ KYoukai's men) , and then Shousa was assigned as vice-commander by the hsu leaders. Would be comparable to Shin - En/Sosui/Kyoukai connection.

    And I already said she could have a "right hand man" or "personal secretary" like all the others do as well, in my first reply to you lol. But she won't have a lt. that is recognized as a lt. within the HSU (which I assumed is what you were referring to), due to the sheer fact she herself is referred to as a LT.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
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  20. BossYimz

    BossYimz

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    Kyou kai outranks Suugen.
    Suugen who is outranked by Kyou kai has an official vice. Mind you, Suugen's infantry commander rank is not even recognized by the Qin military higher ups, it is an HSU rank.
    Even Ten has an official adjutant.
    [​IMG]
    However, we are supposed to believe that Kyou kai has no official vice/adjutant/lieutenant in her unit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
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